Game Thread: Habs Host Soaring Red Wings
by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 5:54 PM EST
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PrintDetroit Red Wings at Montreal Canadiens, Jan 25, 2012 7:30 PM EST
If there was a team you'd want to pattern after, in the post-lockout/salary cap era, it's the Detroit Red Wings.
The NHL franchise from Motor City have built a successful system around a core of key players for nearly 20 years, and found a way to keep it successful in the "New NHL." It actually dates back further with the drafting of Steve Yzerman by then Wings GM and current Sr. VP Jim Devellano, but didn't really take shape until the arrival of Nicklas Lidstrom and company in the early nineties.
The Chicago Blackhawks started using that system, and it paid off. The Edmonton Oilers could be the next team to do it. Whether they can be as successful over that span all falls on the skills of the GM, and the patience of the fans.
It should be noted that when Devellano became GM of the Red Wings in 1982, he felt he could turn the team around from the "Dead Wings" era in five years. Seven years later they began winning Division titles and it was 15 years later until a Stanley Cup arrived. Do you think Canadiens fans would wait that long? No need to answer.
Much like the Canadiens developing and scouting out the Quebec-born talent, that they could get their hands on. Devellano and then senior scout Ken Holland starting an extensive scouting system in Europe. It was one of the first, and brought in a core of players that many NHL teams had little or no idea about.
Lidstrom, drafted in the Third Round in 1989, is part of that system, and 22 years later is still their top rearguard.
Pavel Datsyuk is an another prime example of the success Detroit had in Europe. Passed over in two entry drafts, Datsyuk was in the right place at the right time when Red Wings scout Hakan Anderrson got a glimpse of him, while actually scouting his competition.
He was eventually drafted, and still available in the 6th Round in 1998. Coming in a few spots ahead of him was Andrei Markov. Other current Montreal Canadiens in that draft class were Scott Gomez, Erik Cole and Brian Gionta.
Anyone know what Eric Chouinard is doing these days? He was the guy the Canadiens took in the First Round that year. We grabbed Mike Ribeiro later on, but we know how that turned out.
Meanwhile the Red Wings formula has fans wondering not if they will make the playoffs, but whether or not they finish in the Top Three in the Western Conference.
The Canadiens on the other hand are at the former of that. A win tonight would be a huge feather in the team's cap heading into the All-Star break. But of course it will be a huge task ahead of them.
Datsyuk leads his team in scoring (third in the league) and had the game winner in their last meeting in December of 2010. Jimmy Howard, who leads the league in wins with 30, was the man between the pipes that night and will be again tonight.
In five-on-five, the Red Wings only trail the Boston Bruins in for/against differential. Surprising given the team's abundance of defensive talent, is their 22nd ranked penalty kill, and just a single short-handed goal.
The Canadiens will want to get the lead early, and actually hold on to it. The Red Wings don't dicker with a lead, and are 19-2-1 when leading after one period, and 21-1-1 after 40 minutes.
Rene Bourque was absent for Tuesday's practice (flu), but is expected to be ready for tonight's game. The recently acquired forward leads the team in experience against Detroit (32 games, six goals) from his days with the Calgary Flames and the Chicago Blackhawks.
Carey Price's foot injury that occurred post-game Saturday is not a concern, as he was back at practice Tuesday. The Canadiens goaltender is 1-2-1 (2,49, .924) in his career against the Red Wings.
Two players not expected to be in the lineup against Detroit are Petteri Nokelainen and Travis Moen, both out with injuries. Andreas Engqvist was called up late Tuesday.
Scott Gomez will play on the wing alongside Tomas Plekanec and Bourque.
Update: Nicklas Lidstrom left the Wings morning skate early, with an illness, and will not dress tonight. It's a shame as this might have been the last time fans get to see the future Hall of Famer.
Raphael Diaz has been added, as an injury replacement, to the 2012 NHL All-Star Game, as part of the rookie squads.
MONTREAL CANADIENS PROJECTED LINEUP
Forwards
Rene Bourque - Tomas Plekanec - Scott Gomez
Max Pacioretty - David Desharnais - Erik Cole
Mathieu Darche - Lars Eller - Andrei Kostitsyn
[double shift] - Andreas Engqvist - Mike Blunden
Defensemen
Alexei Emelin - Raphael Diaz
Goalies
Carey Price - Peter Budaj
DETROIT RED WINGS PROJECTED LINEUP
Forwards
Johan Franzen - Pavel Datsyuk - Todd Bertuzzi
Valtteri Filppula - Henrik Zettterberg - Jiri Hudler
Drew Miller - Darren Helm - Dan Cleary
Cory Emmerton - Justin Abdelkader - Tomas Holmstrom
Defense Pairings
Jonathan Ericsson - Mike Commodore
Goalies
Jimmy Howard - Ty Conklin
Red Wings vs Canadiens coverage
SBN coverage from Winging It In Motown
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Pre Game reading
Chris Boucher on the free agent penalty-kill unit and a focus on Hal Gill
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:20 PM EST reply actions
Another post on P.K., which tells me people are legitimately worried.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
I saw that, but due to my stupid unilingualism I can’t appreciate it as much as many of you fine folk.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’m usually lazy and “read” through google translate to get the gist of what Olivier’s saying. I would probably be better off in the long-run if I would actually try to read with a dictionary at my side.
That’s actually a good idea. Learn French through Olivier’s website. Is there anything he can’t do?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
On the rare occasion when I do comment I pull out a dictionary. It’s time-consuming since I know enough French to make easily make a mess of things but not enough to easily write my thoughts.
I’ve literally spent 10 minutes putting together a 3-sentence comment. I kind of regret not continuing to take French classes through at least the second half of high school but looking back I wasn’t getting much out of them.
At least the numbers have the power of language all on their own (as I butcher Bill James).
I wish my parents had put me in French immersion as a kid, I know my kids will be in that program.
Without it I only took FSL from grade 3-7 as grade 7 was the first opportunity students could take to drop it. Like a 13 year old would understand the gravity of that decision, made only because “it’s my lowest grade”.
Stupid pre-teen me.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I always welcome hilarious google translations in the comments. Google translate, if I’m reading the stats well, is a fairly significant part of my readreship, in fact.
That being said, hailing from quebec city (which is, y’know, 98% french), I did start learning english reading stuff in english with a dictionnary. It’s actually fairly effective; authors are always resorting to the same words.
Yeah, well I am going to have a minor in Spanish, after I changed my Spanish major to something else, and realized I really should have taken French all along.
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
If Gauthier trades Subban, I WILL boycott the Habs.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
It would be a clear sign that the org has no clue what they’re doing, that’s for sure.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Those signs are already there.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
There are signs of panic, but for all we know the Bourque trade COULD work out, and we could theoretically get a coach in the offseason who could outdo Jacques Martin. Trading a player like Subban would be a sign of pure incompetence more than panic.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
My opinion of the Cammy trade has gone from facepalming to wait-and-see based on how the Bourque-Plekanec duo have been rowing upstream in tough minutes.
There’s little conceivable way trading Subban makes sense, especially for a team in Montreal’s position. I think the we-need-a-number-one-center meme has been drilled so deeply, though, that there’s a sizable portion of observers who’re willing to trade Subban to get one — even though elite defensemen are more impactful than elite centers short of generational talents.
. I think the we-need-a-number-one-center meme has been drilled so deeply, though, that there’s a sizable portion of observers who’re willing to trade Subban to get one — even though elite defensemen are more impactful than elite centers short of generational talents.
So what you’re saying is the Habs should trade for a single 1st-overall pick (because those always work out) or Sidney Crosby (because chiropractors know how to treat brain injuries).
I’m saying I wouldn’t think of trading Subban for any forward this side of Evgeni Malkin. For a guy of Malkin’s caliber, maybe Stamkos too, I’d have to think about it.
I just think D-men are that important.
Malkin and Stamkos are the only players I can think of where a deal makes sense to me. Basically the Habs would need to get a tough minutes, play-driving centre defenseman a player 27 or under with a fair amount of team control while not being one of those insane 8+ year contracts
There’s really not a lot out there that meets that kind of criteria. Even Malkin is only under contract for 2 seasons.
And Malkin doesn’t really play tough minutes either. Bylsma has him starting 65% in the offensive zone.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t know if Malkin can play tough minutes, more like opposing players have to play tough minutes against him. Have you seen him play lately? He’s pretty much dominant at every shift and can create several scoring chances per shift…
by thorandresson on Jan 25, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
He is insanely good. I’m just saying he doesn’t currently play tough minutes. Not that he can’t, Bylsma is just a genius at getting him out in good situations.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Stamkos took a beating last time he was in MTL becaus he had to try and protect Bergeron.
Don’t trade Subban unless it’s for a comparable D-Man in his mid-20’s. That’s it, that’s all.
Doughty, but he’s making 7 mil.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
really? over the best player on team Canada in 2010?
by thorandresson on Jan 25, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think his low defensive faceoff number is due to him being pretty bad at them, so given the chance Bylsma wouldn’t start him there.
He also isn’t on the pk, but I think that’ cause Crosby is out, cause he used to play some pk.
by thorandresson on Jan 25, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Marinaro stirring the pot again on Twitter
“Interested 2 c how things play out between Cunneyworth & SGomez. Informed that very unpleasant things said by both last Friday in Pitts.”
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:23 PM EST reply actions
I for one am not surprised that there are issues with the coaches. They’re changing strategies, not succeeding, and the players know that the coaches will be released at season’s end.
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That;s just it. The players under contract are aware they won’t need to deal with him after April.
Which makes the decision to remove Martin even more bizarre.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
At this point I’d almost rather see Lidstrom play.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
I would.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Talk again that the Bulldogs will move to Laval, once their deal is up at the end of 2012-13.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:43 PM EST reply actions
That would suck for all you Ontarians but would rock for me.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Patrick Roy chimes in
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:47 PM EST reply actions
I’m thinking he wants us to take Grigorenko so he can keep coaching him.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah no kidding
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Hunter’s effectiveness with the Capitals is probably a cautionary tale with Roy. It’s difficult to tell if the coach/owners of rich junior clubs like London or Quebec City are good or they’re able to flex their wealth and influence to assemble a better team than they would be able to in a more level playing field.
This is true, but I think Roy is a pretty smart hockey guy, and I think his reputation is a bit exaggerated.
The Remparts have had some talent come through (Radulov, Grigorenko) but not like London has. I’m not gunning for Roy to be the coach, but I can see it happening and I’m not too worried about it if it does happen. I think he’s much smarter than people credit him for.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah the Knights have had a ridiculous amount of talent go through their ranks, and as someone who lived a significant portion of my life in Guelph and cheering for the Storm, I hate them for it. Although Guelph has had some gems such as Doughty, Brown, Girardi and Callahan.
No doubt. London’s continuing dominance without Hunter sure looks like he wasn’t the key cog there.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Good story on David Desharnais
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:50 PM EST reply actions
Richard Zednik
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:52 PM EST reply actions
My daughter found this one
Nothing to do with hockey, but worth a look if you have kids
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 6:55 PM EST reply actions
Colour me unconcerned. I just don’t see Sooby going anywhere.
In my view, the only way it happens is if some other GM is ready to blow his brains out.
And it’s not like this city doesn’t enjoy feasting on the rumour buffet, gorging on a smörgåsbord of breathless hearsay and other grapevine delights.
Knowwhatumsayin’?
Are you asserting that the city of Montreal enjoys giving credence to unsubstantiated hearsay?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Too true.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely not.
Why, I believe it was Kahlil Gibran who wrote, “If you reveal your secrets to the wind, you should not blame the wind for revealing them to the trees.”
In other words, Francois Gagnon has a bad haircut.
by JD__ on Jan 25, 2012 7:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Tonight will be the night our luck will turn. We’ll get crazy lucky the rest of the season and finish 9th, then be unlucky for 3 years.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a little what happened in the 2009-2010 playoff run which lost the Habs a bunch of draft positions. ;)
Friggin Halak!
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Eller
Out against 1st line toughs again. How long until he’s benched?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:43 PM EST reply actions
I hear you.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Randy puts Pleky and Gomez on the same line and doesn’t use them against Datsyuk???
Zetterberg gets… Desharnais?
Wat?
…we’re going to get pasted, aren’t we?
Maybe Lidstrom’s absence will really kill them.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
I really don’t understand this. Does RC think he can defend against the best defensive forward of the last ten years? Maybe one of the best ever?
I don’t try to understand him anymore, I just hope he doesn’t do anything too crazy.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Helm has had about 3 non-calls go his way already.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:47 PM EST reply actions
Check that, one was Hudler.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Gomez continues to lead the team in 1st assists if that goal counts.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:48 PM EST reply actions
All at ES, correct?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly he might be the most underrated player in the league.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Well I’m not talking about his pay, but how people think about him in general.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Subban might challenge for that soon.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think most people, even his haters, recognize how good Subban is.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
I think the thing is, most people don’t realise what he is good at. He still gets mistaken for an unidimensional offensive defenceman, people know he’s good offensively. What they don’t see is how good he is at controlling the play at both ends of the ice.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 27, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn’t agree more. People are still commenting on his play in view of his draft scouting report. Subban grew by leaps and bounds last year.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 27, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Bourque! off a great rush from Gomez
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 7:49 PM EST reply actions
I just heard it at RDS, they didn’t say the reason.
by fsaintjacques on Jan 25, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Upper body, speculation is a rib injury from a Komisarek check.
by MathMan on Jan 25, 2012 8:02 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Nice work by Emelin to clear that puck
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 7:54 PM EST reply actions
Holy shit we’re playing well.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:56 PM EST reply actions
- for Emelin!
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 7:56 PM EST reply actions
Gomez
“F*ck, I gotta score now.”
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 7:58 PM EST reply actions
What makes that shift even more impressive is who Kostitsyn won that puck from. Henrik Zetterberg ffs.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 7:59 PM EST reply actions
This is a great game so far.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:01 PM EST reply actions
I'm a little late but...
In response to the PK trade worries, if management thought they were going to move him, why would they have him playing 23 minutes a game?
He’s only playing to justify the Halak trade.
Shit, wrong guy.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Aah. I was under the impression people were assuming another crazy-ass trade, based on the Cammaleri happenings.
But apparently they are thinking we might actually get an equal return. I don’t.
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Nice to have you around. I’m thinking a lot of us were hoping Gomez would get it just for the media stories.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Emelin with a great chance for #2
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:07 PM EST reply actions
oh cue the PK attack
Subban negates a PP
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:10 PM EST reply actions
What? That’s a brutal call. How does Cleary not get a roughing call. And that’s not an elbow, Ferraro, it was a wrist. Open your damn eyes.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:10 PM EST reply actions
Judging by our PP, tough to disagree.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah that was quite impressive man!
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
What a damn play!
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:12 PM EST reply actions
Kronwall hooked his stick and I think it blew Howard’s timing.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Man, Howard must ne thinking, “WTF!”
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:12 PM EST reply actions
Just one of those nights.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Lidstrom out, and apparently the rest of Detroit’s D took the night off. Kostitsynn just had a great chance.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:14 PM EST reply actions
MathMan
I called it.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:15 PM EST reply actions
Feels great while it happens though.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Say hello, Ty.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:15 PM EST reply actions
Now, the Habs win this…and then have to wait six days till their next game….Talk about a momentum killer
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:17 PM EST reply actions
If I’m Detroit’s coach, I pull Howard with the 30 seconds left to play.
That’s why I’m not Detroit’s coach.
If Mario Tremblay is Detroit’s coach, he’s still in net until he skates to the bench and demands a trade.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
At this point, wouldn’t Charlton Heston be a zombie?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
Soylent Green?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well, hate to be a wet blanket, but could 4-0 be blown? And you know, we’re being outhit 12-1, what with us being smurfs and all, and needing a big physical (insert choice here).
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Depends… are you 4’6"?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah it’s been great, but I wouldn’t doubt this team’s ability to blow it so I’m not celebrating yet.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Jeez. Lidstrom can’t possibly be the difference between normal Detroit and what we’re seeing here.
Or can he?
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Lidstrom and some poor play and some bad luck.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Scoring Chances
+8/-4 at ES, +0/-2 ST
Eller/AKost/Blunden +3/-0 (aren’t they matched to Datsyuk?!)
Emelin +6/-3
So with everyone wondering what’s going on: behold the power of Chez Parée!
Emelin having a great night.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
Bourque is showing me he might be a good 2nd liner again, which makes that trade look a lot stronger. Small sample size though.
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Maybe Kelly Hrudey was right and Bourque just didn’t try in Calgary?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
The other guy in that deal was -1 with one shot (20min TOI) last night….But yes, small sample
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
man their D sucks…Pax just skated in and scooped that off the boards
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:37 PM EST reply actions
He really got all the time in world there.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Holy shit!
What is this?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:37 PM EST reply actions
A lot of fun. But in all fairness, Detroit is obviously already on vacation. They have shown absolutely nothing except some hits. I mean, that last goal was sad from a Detroit point of view. Very lazy.
Yeah, I don't like the Bruins, but I HATE the Flyers!
After seeing how great we are, I’m sure Datsyuk will demand a trade to Montreal.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
Has Conklin made a save?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Babcok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Patrick#New_York_Rangers_.281926.E2.80.931946.29
by fsaintjacques on Jan 25, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, what’s going on?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:42 PM EST reply actions
Couldn’t we have activated that warp in October?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Kaberle continues to rack up points in MTL.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:42 PM EST reply actions
He’s been getting better. I wouldn’t be surprised if they can resurrect his career here.
Hopefully then they could flip him for an asset if Markov comes back because he is redundant on a healthy Habs.
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
We agreed on that one from the start. It doesn’t even matter what we eventually get for Kaberle because we gave nothing for him.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Pacioretty’s shot volume is turning into goals again. He’s a beauty.
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He’s been a monster shot producer ever since he started 2009-10 (His AHL shot rates were unreal). There is a reason I discribe him in terms like “future regular 30 goal scorer”
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I’m really hoping Gomez gets in on this.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:44 PM EST reply actions
Subban benched for no reason. Even in a route Cunneyworth shows he’s a fucking idiot.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:44 PM EST reply actions
Should have been fired before the Subban/Eller scratch game was over.
Though that would have been quite the gongshow; firing a coach in the middle of the game after recently firing another guy.
I guess, or you could give the kid some confidence in pressing the attack as Detroit is bound to play sloppy.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I’d say it’s impossible to fire him this year in Montreal.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t bench a guy for 10 minutes to give other people ice, you just give fewer shifts. He’s benched.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Making a point for negating that PP I suppose. And, well, he’s working with a 6-goal lead. If you insist on doing it, it’s not a bad time.
I would be less against it if Subban had taken a bad penalty, but the penalty was BS anyway and we scored 4-on-4.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
This is right so let’s hope it’s more about resting him during a blowout wich would actually make sense since he’s playing so damn much. I didn’t notice if Gorges has played a little less since the first.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Gorges is still the TOI leader so I don’t think so.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Has Gorges been nursing his legs/groin consistently for the last couple games?
It may be related to the turnovers, or not. But it is a data point
Not that I know of.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Seems to me it’s an easy opportunity to firmly reestablish his position in the peckign order. The play was undisciplined, however one paints it. He knows what’s going on.
I’m not a fan of benching top end players for questionable calls. I wasn’t a fan of it under Martin either.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
I looked at it on PVR like 8 times, unless his elbow is on his wrist it wasn’t an elbow.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Absent PK’s recent interaction with the coaching staff, I doubt anything would have come of that first period penalty.
In context, some potential discipline issues and a team far ahead of its opponent, it’s an easy move by the coaching staff.
Same thing early last season. PK was hardly ruined.
He’s a kid, but he gets it.
Someone must...
…slipped peyote in my curried chicken tonight. I just woke up and looked at the score. Heaven help I’m hallucinating.
by punkster on Jan 25, 2012 8:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
So I’m thinking Price should spend his entire period in the all-star game handling the puck outside the trapezoid behind the net. That or skip it like Ovechkin is.
In all seriousness, how much longer do we have to wait before they get rid of the trapezoid?
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
There are rumours that it could come out this year.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Brodeur will have a career season next year.
by fsaintjacques on Jan 25, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Brodeur’s puck handling skill really did not benefit his stats in anyway. In fact, his ability wasn’t reflected by his stats either, and he doesn’t deserve the credit he gets.
Read more here:
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2007/01/martin-brodeur-vezina-trophy-winner.html
It’s just one of many articles, and probably not even the best, but if you spend some time on the site, you’ll get the idea.
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
My main reason for wanting it back is I think it would help reduce injuries to some degree.
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
That’s true, lots of boarding could be avoided.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
that would be awesome. I was always impressed with Al strachan’s (is that his name, the analyst who was fired after writing the book about how t.o. was terrible) argument against imposing the trapezoid: it’s legislating against a skill, effectively denying it it’s place int he game.
Strachan is definitely the guys you’re thinking of.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. And Andrew was right. Reverse angle shows it wasn’t an elbow
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Semantics.
You retaliate after a hit and the refs will call a penalty. Whatever fits the bill.
It was an obviously conscious and wholly unnecessary gesture.
PK knows it. RC knows it. PK is under no illusions why he’s sitting.
Take away the recent BS – which currently isn’t a big deal but stands to devolve down the road – and PK doesn’t sit.
His benching is hardly earth-shattering stuff.
It’s not semantics at all. If it wasn’t a penalty then why is he getting benched?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
That assumes refs get it right all the time.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll never forget post-lockout when Wade Belak got called for hooking Alexander Perezhogin (I think it was Perezhogin). The Hab player blew past Belak who went to hook him, realized what he was doing, didn’t touch him and still got called for a penalty.
My favourite was Pouliot last year completing a brilliant back check for the first time ever, getting all puck and going back up ice, and he got called for hocking when his stick never left the ice.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
TSN saying the same and showing the reasons why, a sloppy turnover and the elbow right in front of the ref, if you’re going to bench him, it’s the best time, he’ll play again next period, kid’s gotta learn, it’s called tough love
If a player is so important to a team that you have to wait till you’re up 5-0 before benching him said player is probably not playing that bad no?
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Tough love is also called bad strategy in the modern NHL.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Josh Gorges just said RC is sending a great message by benching PK
by thorandresson on Jan 25, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Because if he said anything other than that it would be a firestorm.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
You assume most commentators know what they are talking about.
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Ferraro is especially full of shit.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
From what I can see and understand of the game, there is no way in hell Subban does what he’s been doing since last January if he’s not an utmostly focussed, locked-in individual.
RC is out of his depth.
so are you implying that he plays perfectly makes no mistakes and can’t improve his game because it’s perfect, unfortunately he doesn’t look that way because all his teammates are way below his level?
by thorandresson on Jan 25, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
The Panel
Think they mention Corsi, Fenwick, etc?
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:06 PM EST reply actions
Gorges
Should have looked at his numbers first, on performance
Fenwick -1, Corsi -3
Subban +3 and +3
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:12 PM EST reply actions
Gee Duthie, pretty sure I said that after the first period. But OK
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:13 PM EST reply actions
Scoring chances
Crikey.
+5/-3 ES, +1/-1 ST
Plekanec/Bourque/Gomez, matched up to Helm (well, dunno if RC is still matching), are +5/-1.
Kaberle is +7/-3. If you want proof of the wings being hung over, there you go. Emelin +9/-4. Looks like randy is gonna ride that 22/74 combo? Why not…
But that wouldn’t be a game without RC needlessly benching a player, eh?
What I say has no effect on Carey Price. Shutout.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Its not about the goaltender hearing you, its about the metaphysics of shutouts. How does he not know that?
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Clearly he isn’t a former goalie.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Not lying, a ref mentioned my shutout to me once,got scored on off a faceoff with 0.2 seconds left.
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
And he said it literally right before the faceoff.
by Hunter Durfee on Jan 25, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
What an a-hole. That’s inexcusable.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
He wwent on about jinxing a Leafs shutout, then said they are 300 ft above the ice so Price can’t hear them…then 2 seconds later the Wings scored
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
You know ,thinking about it, if the team manages to crawl all the way back in the playoffs, he probably will.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well yes but that just means Jack Adams hype isn’t always about good coaching. Wasn’t Carbonneau nominated once? I mean think about the hype if a team that was in lottery pick territory in January makes the PO, instant JA nomination.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure there is a massive correlation between Jack Adams consideration and PDO.
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
That would make for an interesting article.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone actually take NHL awards seriously? Just like the Oscars…
Remember when last year Luongo was nominated for the Vezina ahead of Price?
by thorandresson on Jan 25, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Every time I think about the Oscars being taken seriously, I think about Shakespeare in Love winning over Saving Private Ryan. Or Forrest Gump over Shawshank.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’m more pissed about Inglourious Basterds not winning Best Orginal Screenplay. And I dunno. Much as I love Shawshank, Forrest Gump is fucking Forrest Gump
Forrest Gump was okay, but didn’t have any depth. Shawshank was amazing.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Both were about the triumphs of human spirit in the face of adversity. But was a result of determination and resourcefulness while the other was about an athletically gifted dumb guy that kept getting lucky.
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha that’s the best comparison between the two I’ve ever read.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
A Beautiful Mind winning Best Director, Best Picture, Best Supporting Actress and Best Adapted Screenplay, but not the Best Actor.
So the movie was brilliantly directed, the lead actress was outstanding, and it was the best movie, but the main character that the whole story was based upon wasn’t….great?
Alrighty then.
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by Chris Boyle on Jan 25, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oscars make a lot more sense when you start looking at in terms of “Oscar wining/nominated films” being its own genre with its own conventions rather than it being some kind of attempt at an objective view at which films and individual performances were the best or not.
Much like modern literature has essentially become a genre targeted at the educated and pretentious Hence why Atwood can write a not particularly interesting or groundbreaking sci-fi novel and still look down on the sci-fi genre as not literature.
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 27, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Gord Miller is a bit of a dick for that.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:24 PM EST reply actions
And people criticized JM for sitting back.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:32 PM EST reply actions
Leading the team in Corsi and Fenwick, so why not?
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Part of that was missing the massive score effects of the 2nd period.
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Outshot 18-6 since the 6th goal.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
3/3 after 40 6/7 now
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Do you know what are the shots in the third?
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
7-5 now. Was 6-3 when I posted.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. Was kind of wondering if our number one Dman being on the bench the whole 2nd period played a big part in how much we got outshot. Probably a mix of that and the score effects affect a huge lead.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
As you said, probably a mix of both.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Have to assume there’s gonna be some Detroit pushback.
As long as they don’t win in OT. Babcock’ll start blubbering again. Effin’ crybaby.
You’re a gem, Dave. I’m wondering when James will figure out the picture function and bombard us all with huge posts.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yes and so has the SPVM, the SQ, the RCMP and Interpol. Why do you think nobody responds to your posts? Guilt by association.
I thought the term was
Mona Lisa baby!™
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Hahahaha
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to say I wish we had more than one Cole but they kinda do with him and Pacioretty.
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hopefully Bourque can become more Coleish?
by thorandresson on Jan 25, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Cole is like a hockey version of Arjen Robben. His signature move at least, Cole seems to be a nice guy.
Love Robben.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Its certainly possible. He was like that at the height of his career.
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by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
I never understood why it took JM a while to warm up to him. It seemed like Cole was in JM’s doghouse at season’s start.
One of the most confusing things about JM’s tenure.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t believe some people called him a product of Staal before this season. Did those people watch him play at all?
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
He was actually on a pretty usual pace in the goal department but he couldn’t rack up the assists because… well Edmonton.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Pretty sure he was their goalscoring leader when he got traded back to Carolina.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
The whole team should be drinking the Cole-Aid.
by JD__ on Jan 25, 2012 9:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Cole-Aid
Should get a ™
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by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Octopus!
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:55 PM EST reply actions
Ok, newbie question..
what is the signficance of an octopus on the ice?
It’s a Red Wings thing. Back in the 50s, you needed 8 wins to get a cup, and someone started throwing the octopus on the ice to symbolize that journey to the cup, and they ended up winning.
1952, when they won eight straight. Came via Pete and Jerry Cusimano, who owned a fish market, were the first to toss one on the ice.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting to see how they hold the momentum. If they can pull off a solid record post-All Star break, like the Leafs did last season, they should make the playoffs.
That is unless Gauthier dismantles the ship first.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 25, 2012 9:58 PM EST reply actions
Who was it that said that this team when healthy may be too good for Randy to screw up? Like I said earlier, if that happens he’ll probably get a Jack Adams nomination and that would be absolutely hilarious.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Montreal in the red again for non-shootout plus minus. +2. Exclude EN and they are at +6. And still closer to 15th than 8th while 3 true minus teams (Florida, New Jersey and Ottawa) are in.
Frustrating year.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 10:15 PM EST reply actions
Crazy year.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 25, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Everything regresses to the mean, 15 win streak coming.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Sadly its regress to the mean. Not mystically balances out.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 25, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Let me dream, we’re due for a boatload of luck.
by Statsfanatic81 on Jan 25, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
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