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Damn the Haters

MONTREAL, CANADA - JANUARY 15:  Let's all celebrate our irrelevance!  (Photo by Richard Wolowicz/Getty Images)


If you're wondering what exactly a person who has given up on the Canadiens season this year is going to write about for the remainder of it, well... get used to this. As fans of this club, we're down, but we're not going to accept humiliation without any fighting back. We won't be placating the haters like that.

Funny thing happened last week after I published my post-Cammalleri trade rant. I got a message from a one-time e-rival, a Bruins fan who I haven't heard from for a while. He complimented me on the piece for essentially seeing the team without bleu-blanc-et-rouge blinders on, and that he quite liked the piece (which is quite funny, since he's a fan that does nothing but wear black and gold blinders!). I know the Pension Plan Puppets guys enjoyed the piece, too. When you're pleasing the haters, you know you're at a low.

But I'm a proud fan of this currently whacky franchise. I'm cheering for this team to still win hockey games, even if I think the team believes winning is a futile exercise for the next three months. The team showed some life this weekend with the return of King Possession, the much derided Scott Gomez. Gomez finished his weekend a +13 in Fenwick measures, the Habs played strong at even strength against two teams in playoff spots for the first time in weeks, and they got 3 of a possible 4 points. There is a lot still wrong with the team (how about that 1-6 road record under Cunneyworth?), but I'm still a fan of the players themselves, including Gomez, who continues to help the team win hockey games despite struggling to produce goals. His injury directly coincided with the team's fall from 9th place and rising to likely no shot of making the playoffs, and if the Habs want to tank as I suspect, they might have to find a way to keep Gomez out of the lineup.

But for now, my attention is less on the day-to-day stuff then it is on shooting down these wolves and vultures closing in on us. And Gare Joyce of Sportsnet Magazine is first up, as well meaning as his cover story may have been.

Star-divide

Nevermind that Gare Joyce got his facts wrong. The Canadiens territorial rights clause continues to be overstated in terms of its scope, and Joyce is only happy to peddle the hockey community at large's ignorance on the issue. Robert Lefebvre did the work on this front on this very site a few years ago, and no one has ever been able to dispute the findings here. Yes, the Canadiens could not live without being provided first shot at Rejean Houle, Marc Tardif, and Michel Plasse. The 1950s through 1970s Canadiens would never have existed if not for this advantage provided by finding these three surefire Quebecois Hall of Fame talents!

So why were the Canadiens so successful at producing Quebecois talent back in those Original Six days? They invented the modern farm system. The franchise bought up whole leagues as well as clubs as feeders for the team, and yeah, they happened to be mainly based in Quebec. No hockey franchise in North America has come close to searching for and developing talent as the Canadiens did back then. Upon the arrival of the Amateur Draft, the Canadiens then became active traders for draft picks, valuing them at a time when other franchises could only see the short term benefits of such trades. Guy Lafleur was a Canadien because of clever trading, and Ken Dryden was a Canadien because of superior scouting to the Bruins of the time, leading to a key trade.

The rule was silly for both being an advantage and a completely uneccessary one, but it provided little real results in the end. The Canadiens were by far the best managed hockey team for a period of 30 years and gained huge advantages through innovation, not charity.

Nevermind that Gare Joyce thinks that the 1980-1994 Canadiens were middling, even though they were clearly elite. The Canadiens made the Final Four five times in those fifteen years, played for the Stanley Cup three times, and won it twice. They led their division in points 7 times, and averaged 97 points a year in that time frame, a majority of which only had 80 games (84 games in the last 2 years), no OT loser points were awarded and there wasn't even OT until 1983-84. I did a piece on Puck Worlds last spring giving NHL franchises an IIHF standing for each year based on their previous four years of performance, and the Canadiens in this time frame were first in 1989 and never fell below 6th overall. That's a long period of being a good hockey team.

But the best takedown of Gare Joyce's thesis was done by friend of the blog Ellen Etchingham over at Theory of Ice. Joyce's main point was that the Canadiens were not only losing relevance, but they were no longer relevant at all. He continued on this theme in his analysis of the Cammalleri trade, saying Montreal was closer to Columbus' level than even that bastion of recent managerial excellence and success known as Toronto! I'm going to pick and choose some quotes from Ms. Etchingham (as Pierre Gauthier would refer to her as), but you really have to read the whole thing to come out feeling proud of the CH and ready to take all the haters on again:

To whom the Canadiens are not mattering, or on what scale they are least relevant- these things are never specified. Because you couldn’t specify them, could you? You couldn't come up with any way of measuring relevance that would put the Canadiens at the bottom of the NHL pile. The Habs still, even now, sell out every home game, they are still the third most lucrative franchise in the League, they still the leading topic of virtually all Quebecois sports media. Clearly, they still matter very much to a remarkable number of people.

...

And then, of course, there’s the portentous, pointless hand-wringing about how there are no legends the like of Richard or Beliveau on the roster (of course not, that’s why they’re legends), about how the Habs have no face-of-the-franchise player (what, every team needs to have one of those at all times?), and how five teams have won more of the past 31 Stanley Cups than Montreal (a better championship record than 23 other franchises is apparently still not enough to secure relevance, which is of course why the Habs to this day are less relevant than the Islanders). These are the kind of accusations that could easily be leveled at nearly two dozen teams in the current NHL; the fact that Joyce can sell a magazine article just to throw them at the Canadiens is a very good sign of how much the Habs still matter comparative to their brothers in mediocrity.

And finally, on Georges Vezina apparently spinning in his grave over the current state of the Canadiens:

Could old Georges, in his wildest dreams, have imagined how long the Canadiens would survive and all the glory they would garner? I doubt it. It would have seemed as impossible and unlikely looking forward from 1926 as it does looking back from 2012. But I know this: if his spirit has been tagging along for the past 100 years, he is fucking thrilled. He is thrilled and amazed and dazzled, he is positively joyous, because it has been a helluva ride, and a far better ride than any other NHL team has ever given its tubercular ghosts.

When things are desperate, we need these kinds of reminders. We need to remember why we are fans. We should never, ever, have to prove why this franchise still matters when it's pretty obvious how much it still does. It matters greatly to the NHL that the Canadiens aren't likely to make the post-season this year, just as it mattered greatly that the Rangers missed the show from 1997-2004, and that the Maple Leafs haven't been there since 2004. It mattered greatly that the Red Wings were pretty much broke in the early 1980s. It mattered greatly that the Bruins and Blackhawks weren't consistently selling out their arena until the past couple of seasons. The Canadiens aren't anywhere near that level of failure, and people are already claiming they don't matter.

If the NHL were to fold, the Montreal Canadiens would still exist. The Canadiens are the only franchise that pre-dates the NHL and they will be around as a hockey club even if the NHL ceased operations. There is too much history, too much relevance, and too much money to be made off the Canadiens to ever think that someone wouldn't figure out a way to keep the franchise going. Questioning the relevance of this franchise is, quite frankly, the mark of a person more intent on selling copies than accurately assessing the situation. The team sucks this year, and it hasn't won it all in a while. We understand that. To think it doesn't matter anymore? You've now said something loonier than anything I've heard from Pierre Gauthier, Randy Cunneyworth, and Geoff Molson in the past six weeks, and that's saying A LOT.

I can handle criticism of this team and its current operations. But I'll never, ever, sit back and let this revisionist mythology be presented about this club.

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Like I said before, the piece had an agenda and it was a one-sided viewpoint, but I can’t help but understand the overall tone of the piece as being accurate.

I grew up just after the dynasty and my team was the 1980-1994 era that gets routinely disrespected as history moves forward, but living in that time there was an aura, respect and earned hatred about the franchise.

Leaf fans hated Hab fans because they were spoiled. Other franchise hated Hab fans because they were good EVERY year. Hab fans were entitled because they never had to deal with a poor era or weak team.

When they began their decline in 1996 I stubbornly held true to my opinions and allegiance. I quoted Cup wins, hall of famers etc.

About 2-3 seasons ago I went to Montreal to watch Leafs/Habs and a 19 year old waiter was trash talking my Leaf fan buddies. 1967! 1967! etc etc. It was absurd to witness a guy whose memories were likely centered around the late 90s/early 2000s Habs acting arrogant and entitled.

This was the tipping point in me realizing how absurd these discussions were, but also how far the franchise had fallen. Add in the ridiculousness of the Centennial celebration and it’s resemblance to a franchise that operates with a giant Maple Leaf on it’s chest and the difficulty of getting my hands on a pair of Hab tickets even though they have largely been mired in mediocrity and I recognized the Habs are just another team now.

Gare Joyce could have gone about the report in a more fair and balanced manner. He could have fact checked and researched the piece more accurately, but I couldn’t shake the fact that the premise is true to everybody outside of the province of Quebec.

The Habs are an institution, but so were the Edmonton Oilers, Baltimore Orioles and Los Angeles Dodgers until time indicated they weren’t. If the Habs repeat another 20 year period like they just completed they become the Maple Leafs. The glories of the Maple Leafs are quickly being eradicated from living memory and with it all they become is a wing in the Hall of Fame for kids to wonder who they were.

That is where the article is accurate whether we like it or not.

If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33

by Chris Boyle on Jan 16, 2012 12:24 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

I agree with your take. For all the history, it matters not if there’s nothing to come in the future. And the only way to think there will be something coming down the line is in starting to get the sense that management knows what it’s doing, and an important and uncriticized aspect of recent teams, the owners are willing to spend to the full allowable extent to get there (meaning buyouts and demotions where sensible).

by Topham on Jan 16, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for calling Joyce Out

Good for you. What a joke. Upon reading that Joyce article the other day my takeaway was “And…tell me something I don’t know.”

Professional sports, just like anything else really, works in cycles. When I was a kid, the Blackhawks and Red Wings were terrible as you rightly mentioned. It took them years to get back to respectability. The Oilers are currently not the team they once were. The Canucks were so bad for so long, it took how many sweater changes to get to respectability!? And even then, they’re chokers who can’t close the deal, so what’s the difference. It took some time for the NY Yankees to get back on top from the early ’80s to late ’90s. How about “dem bums” the Brooklyn Dodgers!?

No doubt, the Habs are taking a step backwards this year. Fine. Kick us while we’re down. We can take it. The Canadiens will get back on top too, to the chagrin of Joyce and the countless other pundits who for whatever reason resent the Habs. Probably because the Habs were the source of countless disappointments for them growing up. It’s just going to make it that much sweeter when they do win.

The only sports team I know that transcends time is the Maple Leafs — they just lose in every era.

http://www.habsfaninleafland.blogspot.com/

by Habs Fan in LeafLand on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM EST reply actions  

The article was easy to write because the comparison/standard is an impossibility to maintain.

The NHL has no revenue advantage, so there are no dynasties anymore. If you asked a panel who is the best franchise in the NHL today, the answer would be the Red Wings. Consistent contender and four Cups in a 16 year window.

Now compare that to the 1950’s/60’s/70’s Habs and it is a joke. Pathetic. Now compare the current Habs to even the 1980-94 team and it is essentially a joke as well.

The Habs just aren’t special anymore. Every one of their Hall of Famers is in his sixties outside of Patrick Roy. All of this being said, if they could maintain any small Cup run then that issue will be replaced with “They’re back”, followed by highlighting what makes them different and greater than every other franchise.

This issue DOES NOT get written if Gauthier and Molson are not embarrassing the team over the first three months of the season, culminating in them raising the absurdity level on the day of the story by trading a player mid-game because he called the team out.

If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33

by Chris Boyle on Jan 16, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I still want you to write a defence of the Montreal Canadiens of the 80s/early 90s. It seems to be a recurring theme and I honestly can’t believe it needs to be done. I know it’s something both you and I have problems with, as these are the teams we remember as youths and there was never any shame in liking them, they were consistent contenders.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Jan 16, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I am going to do it. I have a good idea that will illustrate the point, just need to put aside some time to do it.

If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33

by Chris Boyle on Jan 16, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Something I wrote a few years ago on 1993. I remembered I had some stats for this (http://www.lionsinwinter.ca/2008/09/myth-of-93.html+)

…What Patrick did was provide the most solid foundation to build on. But the building on top was some what masterful in looking back. Did you know for example that from 1984-85 to 1993-94, the Canadiens were basically the team to beat (with the Flames):

1. Calgary: 433-274-101, 967 pts, +590
2. Montreal, 430-274-104, 964 pts, +509
3. Boston, 412-294-102, 926 pts, +334
4. Washington, 413-312-83, 909 pts, +327
5. Edmonton, 399-314-95, 893 pts, +292

One could argue that it was because of Roy, but why sell those teams short? 2 Cups, 3 finals, a haul of trophies.

by Topham on Jan 16, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

They were arguably the team to beat the majority of 1980-1993.

Here are the Cup winners and the Habs point totals in ().

1980 – NY Islanders 91 (107)
1981 – NY Islanders 110 (103)
1982 – NY Islanders 118 (109)
1983 – NY Islanders 96 (98)
1984 – Edmonton Oilers 119 (75)
1985 – Edmonton Oilers 109 (95)
1986 – Montreal Canadiens 87
1987 – Edmonton Oilers 106 (92)
1988 – Edmonton Oilers 99 (103)
1989 – Calgary Flames 117 (115)
1990 – Edmonton Oilers 90 (93)
1991 – Pittsburgh Penguins 88 (89)
1992 – Pittsburgh Penguins 87 (93)

1993 – Montreal Canadiens 102

In six of the twelve years in which they did not win the Cup they had more points than the eventual champion. All while playing in the Adams Division, one of the toughest divisions in hockey.

It is easy to swipe that history off the face of the earth, but if you lived during that time period, they were always a legit contender to win the Cup.

If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33

by Chris Boyle on Jan 16, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

As a fan, the Canadiens seemed like a lesser team in the 80’s-early 90’s because of the glory of their immediate past in the seventies. Not winning a cup for 6 seasons seemed like a very, very long time until ‘86 rolled around. Look forward to that article whenever it comes. We know the current Canadiens’ problems start from the firing of Savard as GM and the hiring of Rejean Houle.

by Habs Fan in LeafLand on Jan 16, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s always about perspective and perception, which is why the comparison is unfair. People forget the perception of the time and create one in retrospect based upon their perception of today.

That is why 17 years becomes 31. They use 1995-2012 to forge their perception of 1980-1993, whereas while it was happening the perception of 1955-1979 formed the perception while it occurred.

If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33

by Chris Boyle on Jan 16, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus, they played at the same time as one of the greatest teams ever assembled, which rewrote the record books six ways from Sunday. It’s easy to look mediocre compared to that, even if you’re firmly in the second, elite-but-mortal, tier with Calgary, Boston, and Philly.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Robertson's Rants - Exceedingly occasional, lengthy ramblings on hockey topics, hosted at Puck Podcast. And no, my name's not Doug.

by Doogie2K on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

People love to note that the ‘93 team finished third in the Adams. I remind them that they had 100 points (yes, inflated somewhat by Ottawa’s terribility, but still), and that until a slump in the last month of the season, they were on pace for second overall behind Pittsburgh. That’s not the mark of a Cinderella team.

On the other hand, I’ll make no argument against the idea that the Habs got some bounces that playoff. Boston and Pittsburgh jumping out of the way? Ten OT wins? Yeah, they got lucky for sure. Just like every champion gets lucky at one or more points during the post-season. Remember, both Boston and Vancouver were Game 7 OTs away from going home last April.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Robertson's Rants - Exceedingly occasional, lengthy ramblings on hockey topics, hosted at Puck Podcast. And no, my name's not Doug.

by Doogie2K on Jan 17, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I was irked by Joyce's article..

by his historical inaccuracies.

Great example:

“The ceremony had reached its climax when Maurice Richard held the torch aloft, but it wasn’t at its end. No, after thousands of tears were shed, Richard passed the torch to Pierre Turgeon, who then skated a lap of the ice along with his teammates.”

The torch was passed from captain to captain in order of attendees, finishing with Guy Carbonneau (who had an A on his jersey for some reason) passing off to Turgeon.

If you need backup of that you can refer to Robert and Francis co-operative effort. It’s in the last video starting around the 6:40 mark.

Mr. Joyce recently joined SIHR ( ie: uuber hockey history geeks), which Robert and myself are enrolled in, and his piece has drawn some criticism from his fellow members already.

Kevin van Steendelaar

http://www.twitter.com/kvansteendelaar

but don't forget...

http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP

by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 16, 2012 6:49 PM EST reply actions  

In reference to Vezina spinning in his grave, he embellishes a bit that the SIHR meeting was in the winter. It was on October 15, long before the recent chain of events happened,

Kevin van Steendelaar

http://www.twitter.com/kvansteendelaar

but don't forget...

http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP

by Kevin van Steendelaar on Jan 16, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I watched my first hockey game as a 5 yr old during the Christmas Holidays, I can’t say for sure but I know it was the Habs and another Original 6 Team… the year was 1981. From then on I was a fan, the pace, the fans, the electricity, the brutal hits, and the utter joy on the faces of my father and neighbours as the Habs won again. This is the hockey I fell in love with. The social aspects abound, but the commentators vying for their favorites to score, to hit or to fight. That was tangible. That was real. That is why I am a fan.
Regardless of the trophies they didn’t get as a team, or as individuals, those teams battled, and played in the play offs and you were genuinely hurt when they were out. Maybe it was due to how old I was, maybe it was because of the connection fans believed they had with their heros, but the same feeling did not exist for a long time, until Halak and the Habs did what they did in recent history.
These are the reasons numbers will never have the same amount of relevance for me as what history of this team has shown – hard nosed players, a penchant for getting under the skin of particular arch nemesis’ (Philly with Hextall comes to mind), and who could not love Claude Lemieux in that time?? 10th all time in playoff scoring…. couldn’t get better than him.
I’ll always be a fan, no matter the MO of the management. Its just the way it is…win or lose, I’m loyal…. angry and frustrated at times, but loyal nonetheless.

by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jan 16, 2012 7:39 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Question about the Joyce article

I found it strange that he kept bringing up Claude Giroux as an example of the Quebecois stat player that the Canadiens might have previously been able to draft (I’ve read the post you linked, so I understand this is a tenuous assumption anyhow). But Giroux was born in Hearst, ON – nowhere near Quebec. I know he played in the QMJHL and has a French last name (and the article quotes him as saying he watched RDS, so presumably speaks French) but I failed to see the strong Quebec connection that Joyce kept bringing up.

Anyone know much about Giroux’s background, and why he particularly comes up so prominently in Joyce’s article? Is it just because he played in the QMJHL?

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Editor of Hockey in Society

by nucksandpucks on Jan 16, 2012 9:23 PM EST reply actions  

Giroux is brought up because he’s Francophone and the Habs passed on him in 2006, the year they drafted a rare complete bust for the team in David Fischer. In the Montreal media, he’ll always be the Francophone star the Habs didn’t take.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Jan 16, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

And because Joyce gets his information from the Montreal media, he may not have realized Giroux is from Ontario.

by MathMan on Jan 16, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. I didn’t know the Montreal media focuses on Giroux, that makes sense. Figured it was because Giroux is Francophone, but I find that Joyce conflates being Francophone and being Quebecois a bit, which was the source of my confusion.

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by nucksandpucks on Jan 17, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s currently the most popular guy the habs “should” have drafted. It seems there’s a new one every couple of years or so. Not so long ago most of the draft second guessing was about how they should have picked someone other than Kostitsyn in 2003, I can’t wait to see who was clearly better than Leblanc in 2009 and which disappointment the Habs will draft this year to keep the rule of 3 alive.

by Hypnotoad on Jan 17, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Currently the lead candidate for Leblanc being a mistake is Johansson in Washington but I’m sure it will vary for a while until they settle out for their careers. Six months ago it was Josefson.

I’ve made a habit of tracking the cohort of forwards drafted in the latter half of 2009 for this very reason an they are remarkably even so far.

Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/

by Stephan Cooper on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, it´s really boring after a while. Especially the Kostitsyn one is ridiculous. Of course it would had been better to pick Getzlaf, Carter or Parise but Andrei has more talent than any of these guys and that was obviously the reason to draft him. At least we got a decent NHLer while the Rangers picked Hugh fucking Jessiman. The Fischer pick really, really hurts but discussing it every week doesn´t help.

by Torres on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Great response

I thought Joyce’s article raised some good points when I first read it, but I think you point out some very valid criticisms that have made me reconsider many of his arguments.

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Editor of Hockey in Society

by nucksandpucks on Jan 16, 2012 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

Although I appreciate what you’ve written here, Bruce, it strikes me as merely selective damage control in light of your reactionary, borderline juvenile tantrum the other day.

We’re all free to express our opinions.

I am expressing my own.

by JD__ on Jan 16, 2012 10:47 PM EST reply actions  

Oh, I’m far from perfect, I realize. There was a purpose to doing that piece in that manner: the organization was not acting in a manner that deserved respectful discourse, to be honest. The title was a play on that idea as much as it was a message of support for Cammalleri’s comments. I won’t write pieces calling grown men losers very often if that’s what concerns you, I only used that angle because it was very topical.

To be honest, re-reading it, I think I made plenty of arguments to outline the reasons for my conclusions. I still stand by it. I’m not sure what about this piece above is necessarily selective damage control… this Joyce piece came out before the Cammalleri trade and had been on my mind beforehand. I guess by damage control you mean that it outlines ways to still be a fan and yet be completely ticked off at the current state of affairs? I’m curious about this criticsm.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Think you’d agree we’re all far from perfect.

A couple of months ago, I abandoned a well-known Habs discussion forum, despite several years of steady contributions and a relatively popular standing among the readers. I had grown increasingly jaded by the steady degradation and increasingly puerile nature of the discussion.

At the recommendation of one of your frequent contributors, I’ve been steadily following EOTP. The level of discussion is far more thoughful and reasoned, and the analysis substantially more in-depth.

I’m appreciative of that.

There have, however, been a couple of instances where the blog entries have been somewhat beyond the pale.I don’t want to harp on what you wrote the other day, but positing emotionally overwrought, heavy-handed observations as indisputable facts is hardly becoming of a blog entry.

Based on your most recent comments, I’d even argue you have your own partial misgivings about it.

by JD__ on Jan 17, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

In Bruce’s defense, it is extremely difficult to remove the emotion from the process.

I sat down the night Cammy was dealt and thought I had pulled myself away from the irrational reaction based analysis. I began writing and piecing together things with very little evidence. I wasn’t happy with the connections I was making and let it sit over night.

When I looked at it the next morning, I just trashed it. It was obviously emotionally charged and the evidence just wasn’t there to support my connections.

If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33

by Chris Boyle on Jan 17, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It happens to everyone, Chris. As a result, although I didn’t care for the tone of the blog the other day, I wasn’t gonna say anything. The emotional context was fairly clear.

It was the righteous indignation in this most recent piece that mildly ground my gears and compelled me to bring it up.

by JD__ on Jan 17, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

On the Canadiens missing out on Claude Giroux

It never fails to amaze me that the Giroux point is brought up over and over again, without the context of his evaluation from the 2006 draft playing in.

For starters, most Ontario born players born in 1988, would have begun their OHL careers at age 16 in 2004. Giroux, due to a late birthday (January 12,1988), was ineligible to be drafted in ’04, as he still would have been 15 when the season started. In 2005, at age 16, he was not considered good enough to be drafted by the OHL. Having been passed over, he was signed as an undrafted free agent by the Gatineau Olympics. He played one season alongside center David Krejci, drafted by the Bruins two years earlier.

Understandably, NHL clubs hesitated on Giroux, figuring that it was Krejci’s prowess that had inflated Giroux’s numbers. Giroux was also on the small side (a common, yet understandable knock) and had played but one season in a league where offensive numbers are generally higher than the other CHL leagues.

In 2006, Central Scouting had Giroux ranked as the 38th best North American prospect. Factoring in potential Europeans drafted (of which there were 11 prior to the Habs’ second round pick), Giroux was most likely rated anywhere between 45 and 50. The Canadiens chose Fischer in the first round, likely expecting Giroux, (given all the concerns about size, league, and one season of junior) to still be around by position 49, where they chose Ben Maxwell, who was ranked 44th.

The real story, is not the Habs failure to see Giroux, but the astuteness and bravery of the Flyers going off the radar to select him perhaps 20 spots ahead of where he would normally have been taken. It was really a wild gamble that paid off big time.

How risky is it to pick players high from the Q. That same 2006 draft saw Columbus take Derek Brassard 6th overall after a 116 pt season, and Minnesota take James Sheppard 10th overall after an 84 pt season.

The Canadiens might have had other reasons to be suspect of Giroux’s evaluation, such as their own record of picking poorly from the Q. Eric Chouinard anyone? When they chose Chouimard over Simon Gagne, it looked to a no-brainer. Eric was a big goal scoring winger (6.3", 204, 41 goals, 84PTS), Gagne a much smaller center (6’,0", 1995, 69 pts).
If the draft is a big crapshoot in so many senses, picking from the Q is blindfolded darts.

A bigger issue remains that the Habs do not scout the Q well enough. Flyers scout Simon Nolet is responsible for both picks, and Philly trusts his judgements whenever he becomes adamant about a player.

by Robert L on Jan 17, 2012 2:19 AM EST reply actions  

Everybody views drafts with the benefit of hindsight. They use information that they have acquired since and ignore the information acquired before. It is also selective memory to ignore what personal thoughts they had pre-draft in making their post draft assessments.

Nobody seems to mention how badly they were calling for Gilbert Brule in 2005 as he moves from team to team.

If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33

by Chris Boyle on Jan 17, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of the Oilers and draft busts, Cam Barker also springs to mind. Drafted third overall, peaked at 17, and is only on his third NHL team because of that #3 draft position, lo these many years ago. If he’d been picked 33rd, he’d have vanished into obscurity years ago.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Robertson's Rants - Exceedingly occasional, lengthy ramblings on hockey topics, hosted at Puck Podcast. And no, my name's not Doug.

by Doogie2K on Jan 17, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt he would have gotten a 3rd NHL job if it wasn’t for the fact that the Oilers are incompetent.

Tyler Dellow in a recent article pointed out that from footage on Oil Change we can see their managerial software includes CapGeek’s website.

Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/

by Stephan Cooper on Jan 17, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I’m way ahead of you on all that. I’ve been following this entire six-year (and counting!) rebuild.

Still, he never crosses Tambo’s radar if he’s not given the opportunity commensurate with a reputation he hasn’t earned since Chuck Norris jokes were funny.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Robertson's Rants - Exceedingly occasional, lengthy ramblings on hockey topics, hosted at Puck Podcast. And no, my name's not Doug.

by Doogie2K on Jan 18, 2012 1:54 AM EST up reply actions  

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