The Losingest Losers Who Ever Lost
It's over. The Montreal Canadiens management, led by CEO/President Geoff Molson and General Manager Pierre Gauthier, has long since abandoned logic and have decided to go about actively making this season a losing one. The levels of crazy that have come to the surface this season has been impressive: firing assistant and head coaches on game days, acquiring bad contracts to make up for defensive depth issues, hiring a seemingly incompetent rookie interim coach in a move offensive to a large section of the fanbase, and then trading a top line forward mid-game just a day after he publicly criticized the team's strategy and 'losing attitude'.
This was all after a start to the season that was very promising in every measure that we know predicts future success, despite some obvious weaknesses caused by injury. Gauthier likes to tell us how often we've played with an incomplete deck of cards this year, with only a handful of games icing a team that was over the salary floor despite the team spending to the cap. That's an issue of bad luck but also falls on him: he actively invested significant money in some players with major injury concerns, namely Andrei Markov, but also Jaroslav Spacek.
The only logical take one can make on Gauthier's last five weeks is that he's embraced losing for this season.
Randy Cunneyworth took over from Jacques Martin and immediately benched the team's top defenceman and a promising young centre, started playing replacement level fourth liners like Mathieu Darche, Petteri Nokelainen and Mike Blunden at the expense of proven top line talent like Cammalleri and Tomas Plekanec. The team is using Lars Eller, who was benched for a game, as the top line centre currently, a move that can only be seen as beneficial for his development and not for the team's chances of winning.In other words, this team has decided to not try and win games anymore. They're doing so in a spectucularly callous manner, too, embarassing players and coaches on their way out the door. Say what you will about Jacques Martin's defensive system, but he consistently put players in roles that best suited the team's chances of winning hockey games. With him out of the picture, that has changed. The focus is on letting players like Lars Eller, Alexei Emelin, and Raphael Diaz prove themselves against tougher competition at the expense of veterans and leaders like Plekanec and Hal Gill. There's definitely some promise in those players, but this is not what a team does when it is trying to gain points for a playoff push.
When Jacques Martin was fired, the Canadiens had just lost their first game of December in regulation. They were struggling in a lot of areas, but Martin's tactics were keeping the team close. They were also within a couple of points of a playoff spot: one good week could've seen them in 8th place. With Martin gone, it's a struggle to even stay close. You want evidence of this? Before the Martin firing, the team had lost by three or more goals only once (a 4-1 loss to Anaheim), and had beaten teams by that margin four times (Jets, Flyers, Rangers, Hurricanes). Under Cunneyworth, the team has won by 3 or more goals twice (Senators, Jets), which is pretty good... but they've lost by that margin three times (Blackhawks, Jets, Blues).
In the last 11 games of the Martin regime the Canadiens were 4-3-4, getting terrible results beyond the 60 minute mark (1-4) but at least still staying close despite a myriad of injuries. Under Cunneyworth, they are 3-8-0. They've scored 2.55 goals per game, literally the exact same clip they were scoring under Martin in that stretch (and I'm not counting the shootout goal vs. Carolina in there). The offense has become less consistent, and therefore less productive as a whole to the cause of winning.
In the end, those are just the complaints about strategy. At the core for me is the fact that as a fan, I have no interest in watching a team deliberately set out to lose hockey games. And make no mistake about it, that is the team's goal for the remainder of the season. When Cammalleri spoke of the team playing with a 'losing mentality' and it not being surpising that they were losing as a result, he might as well have been talking about the organization from the top down. The desire to win in 2011-12 died quite a while ago, the lure of a top draft pick this season seems to be the driving motive.
I will say this: it does not look like a full scale rebuild at this point. If that were the case, I think the team would have to put Carey Price on the trading block to the highest bidder. Gauthier has acquired players like Kaberle and now Rene Bourque who had longer term deals than the players he moved out. Still, I can't support this attitude. I can't cheer on my team to lose. I'm not going to hold out for the occasional flourish of victory like the Winnipeg game last week. My objective as a fan is for a winning season. If the people in the organization don't want that, then I don't see the point in my continued support.
It's one thing when the team makes the effort to win but comes up short. It's another thing altogether when the team deliberately makes moves to handicap the team's ability to win as it has done this year. It's a losing attitude being passed down by a bunch of losers. It's shameful and does a large disservice to the current players and fans of this team. I'm not even going to get into how shameful it must be for players, owners, coaches and managers of the team's past.
I'll be back onboard as an emotional fan when the team displays a commitment to winning. If you want to call me some kind of bandwagon fan, go ahead, I don't care. I'm still open for communicating with fans about the team, I'll submit some blog postings as I have, but my interest in the games themselves are going to be virtually non-existent. There is no point to it if the goal isn't winning. I'm not contractually obligated to play out the season with professionalism like the players, and it seems incredibly stupid to do so since the coaches and managers of this team don't seem to have that same requirement. And you definitely won't find me berating players like Cammalleri for wanting to get out of this situation. Cammalleri might frustrate with his ups and downs as a scorer, but his competitive spirit is exactly the kind of push we should demand out of all our players.
I wish Bourque well in his Canadiens career, but I'm not 'excited' to see his debut. I recognize the uniform and the players out there, but I don't recognize the team. All I see are a purposely assmebled collective of losers actively making it harder on themselves to win hockey games. Nothing says that more than pulling a well regarded goal scorer from a 1-0 hockey game in the third period against your biggest rival because 24 hours ago, he spoke critically of the team. It's disgusting, stupid, petty, insulting, and cowardly. Way to prove every word of Mike Cammalleri's, even Francois Gagnon's mis-translated version, correct.
102 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You made a lot of good points in here Bruce, but I don’t know if I can make some of the leaps you are making without better information.
I have removed a lot of my emotion in following the Habs over the last two to three seasons and even last nights amateur hour pushed some of my buttons.
I began writing something, but decided to sleep on it and wait for more information to arise and look into some things before I react. I am glad I did because it was fueled with emotion even though I thought at the time I was detached.
I am going to allow the hyperbole die down before I figure out how I feel about this.
One thing is certain, I am less concerned with the players involved than I am with this…
The levels of crazy that have come to the surface this season has been impressive: firing assistant and head coaches on game days, acquiring bad contracts to make up for defensive depth issues, hiring a seemingly incompetent rookie interim coach in a move offensive to a large section of the fanbase, and then trading a top line forward mid-game just a day after he publicly criticized the team’s strategy and ‘losing attitude’.
When you add in the bizarre Markov disappearing story, this season has blown all the confidence management worked 8 hard years to grow. The sportsnet article that came out yesterday looks prophetic today.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
If there’s no method, it’s really nothing but madness. My conclusion is that the method is madness to begin with.
If they were less than two hours from dealing Cammalleri, don’t play him at all last night.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
by Bruce Peter on Jan 13, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Madness = Molson?
I lived through a decade plus of George Steinbrenner getting emotional and sending out organizational decrees that would destroy the team. So madness is not exactly a long shot explanation in my mind.
The Cammalleri thing is beyond bizarre. If you have been discussing this for weeks, wasn’t their fear that an injury to him could cause the deal to fall through? Why was it ok to play him for those two weeks, but not for a period? If he got injured, it was so important that a deal for Rene Bourque be saved that they removed him?
The only thing that would make it understandable to immediately yank Cammy is if the deal was such a steal that you didn’t want the GM to have the option of backing out.
Madness seems logical to me. Gauthier/Gainey tandem don’t have a history of this type of bizarre behaviour. Why all of a sudden has it begun this season?
That is the answer I am searching for.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
by Chris Boyle on Jan 13, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Pie in the skie hypothesis?
Molson, obviously.
It’s a vicious circle: new, unexperienced owner deals with a management structure that was there before him. He doesn’t trust them so he meddles.
Our only chance is that Molson fires Gauthier ASAP and puts in a guy he trusts and let him do his job. Gauthier hasn’t gone batshit crazy all of a sudden, but he may very well be in a situation where he must destroy what he built out of loyalty to the organization. It’s insanity, of course; if this is what’s happening, he should resign. But then again, the NHL is a cartel. If Gauthier resigns (i.e.: isn’t of pure, complete and unfiltered loyalty to his owner), he’s blacklisted and will never again have a job in hockey. Knowing these guys are devoted to the sports, it’s just not an option to them (same thing with Cunneyworth).
And so we watch in dismay as they sink a perfectly fine team in a perfectly fine long term situation.
Pulling out Cammelleri during the game.
Habs did the right thing in playing Cammalleri 2 periods because if they would not have done so, this game would not have counted as a game suspension for Bourque and Habs would have had to wait until Friday the 28th (1 more game)before being allowed to play Bourque. Knowing the rules avoids a lot of controversy.
Good article.
As an outside viewpoint, despite tanking, I have to somewhat respect the idea of not tanking intentionally. We over in Philly still hate the Pens for sucking their way into a couple of good picks.
Don’t be “Those Guys”.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Jan 13, 2012 12:28 PM EST reply actions
It’s one thing when that’s you’re only option. To be fair to Pittsburgh, they were bankrupt. They literally couldn’t afford a different option. And they’re extremely lucky that their tanking netted them Crosby and Malkin… if it had netted them guys like Staal, Fleury, Whitney, and then say Ryan and Barker instead of Crosby and Malkin, they would never have gotten to be anything but a half-decent club and probably would’ve left town.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
by Bruce Peter on Jan 13, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Some of us over here were advocating for what Philadelphia went through in 06-07 as we thought there similarities (everything goes wrong, team ends up much worse than expected).
If Gauthier and company are planning on tanking I think this move is dubious though. While the deal makes the team worse, they don’t get much back in the way of futures. They also have a slightly older player under contract for a longer term as Bruce mentioned (which blew my mind). It doesn’t make sense.
The Penguins were remarkably lucky. A more sound strategy is to accept a losing season like Philly did in 2007 and come right back next year with a high pick and a retooled team.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Big difference between Philly and Montreal.
Let’s be somewhat fair and accept that:
-Philly’s prospect pool was already deep with Richards and Carter emerging, and an underrated Umberger would show he was capable of playing a clutch role.
-Philly also had some assets that underwent the following “transmogrifications” thanks to two desperate and somewhat foolish GMs:
a. Forsberg -—> Upshall, Parent, and 1st and 3rd rounders,
b. NSH 1st rounder———>Hartnell,
c. Alex Zhitnik -—> Braydon Coburn.
You can choose to add the UFA additions of Briere and Timonen that also aided their turnaround, but my point is that the Habs simply have nothing right now to help them ala Holmgren with Philly. Gionta and Plekanec could fetch some assets, but nothing along the lines of what Forsberg fetched for Philly. Moreover, other GMs would try to low-ball a desperate Gauthier in what’s already become a nightmarish year for him and the franchise. You have to really wonder if top-notch UFA’s would want to come to Montreal after this season.
by Dallas_Stars74 on Jan 13, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
That’s very true. Although Philly also had a couple of vets that had hit the end of their career physically to aid them as well: Hatcher, Rathje, Primeau. One could say that we have that potential situation in guys like Markov, Gomez, and Gionta. And we also have Subban who I think is at least partly analagous to the Carter/Richards duo. Pacioretty/Eller is at least in the Umberger category or thereabouts.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
I don’t think you want to underestimate the state the Habs are in. They’ve had some ridiculous injury troubles, but this is otherwise a strong club. It has a number of excellent young pieces, notably Eller, Pacioretty, Subban, and Price, surrounded by several quality veterans.
Whoever is GM next year will have a real NHL roster, a virtually unlimited budget, and presumably a very high draft pick. There are worse situations to land in.
Making any kind of prediction here seems to run into the barrier which is the new CBA. What can and cannot be done depends heavily on things like whether the cap goes up or down and whether there will be a free buyout period again.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 13, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not the exact situation, but you’re completely ignoring emerging talents on the Habs as well.
Subban and Price are as good, in fact better talents than Richards and Carter. Add in guys like Eller and Pacioretty and that more than makes up for Umberger.
As for assets, they don’t have a big player to ship out since they already lost Cammalleri for near nothing, but they have smaller assets that can bring in a quantity of assets such as Moen, Gill and Campoli.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
This team is in good shape as long as they avoid the 1997-1999 sell off of assets that spun the team into non-importance.
If they make good moves from here out then this team could be a top seed next season. The problem is whether this is an actual strategy or a reckless owner who can’t control himself.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
Seems like reckless owner to me.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Agree, have to remember that after Martin firing it was noted that PG’s control was tempered and that all trades had to be viewed and approved by B. Gainey and Molson. Still believe the timing on this was purely vindicative to embarass Cammy on a national audience stage.
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
by Canadian Jet on Jan 14, 2012 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
Better talents in what way? Carter, with or without his injury is languishing in his new house. He’s still the same player who knocked in 46 goals.
Richards? With a career +/- of 40, 25 shorties, 7 coming from a year alone?
Price I like. I really do. Subban… I just don’t see what you guys love about him.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Jan 13, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Subban is a #1 defenseman at 22 who carries the play. Defensemen have more of an impact than a forward does simply because they play more minutes.
Price is clearly a bigger impact than either of Carter or Richards. I like both Carter and Richards but if it’s Subban and Price vs Carter and Richards I think the choice is pretty clear. What Montreal doesn’t have right now is Philadelphia’s scoring depth.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree on the Price front. With decent goaltenders not being all that scarce I’d be thrilled if the Habs traded Price tomorrow for an Eller clone, nevermind a guy of the calibre of Carter or Richards (contracts notwithstanding).
I think people really underestimate goaltender effect. It seems like people have been down on goalies ever since the Niemi vs Leighton final, but one fluke doesn’t mean all goalies in the NHL are equal. Looking on a day-to-day basis and how unlucky the Habs are, I feel like we’d be last overall if it wasn’t for a top 5 goalie. Let alone one that can hack it as a long term starter in THIS city.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
The mistake people make is that goaltending is not as big a factor on an ELITE team. Detroit, Philly, Chicago can paper over mediocre goaltending because they always have the puck. They don’t require their goaltenders to do much more than stop the first shot.
You can now win the Cup without an elite goaltender, but an elite goaltender can take a mediocre team and push them to good. It can take a good team and push them to great.
Without Price this season the Habs would be in Jackets territory. He cleans up a lot of his defensemen’s mess through his rebound control alone.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
Exactly my point only put much better.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Price is right there except that he’s 24 turning 25 and has only two years before UFA. Subban is a better comparable to the Carter/Richards group in 2007.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
Yeah, the comparable ones are Subban (big minute defenseman) and Pacioretty (winger that produces huge shot numbers and has a good chance at a multiple 30 goal season future and doesn’t suck defensively either)
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 13, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
"Subban and Price are as good, in fact better talents than Richards and Carter."
“in fact”….please. That’s your opinion. Fact is that the impact of R&C has thus far had more influence on Philly’s fortunes than S&P have had for Montreal. That said, equally important are those pieces Holmgren added to help Philly in the way of Hartnell, Upshall, Timonen, Briere, etc., that Montreal may not be able to do so within the matter of one off-season ala Holmgren.
“but they have smaller assets that can bring in a quantity of assets such as Moen, Gill and Campoli.”
Moen is probably your best asset among these three (Gill’s age and Campoli’s injury will factor in their devaluations), but your team is not in a bargaining position to bring a “quantity” of assets for either of them.
by Dallas_Stars74 on Jan 13, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Montreal also has less to fix than that Philly team. And look at where Richards and Carter were at that point. There’s no doubt Subban and Price are ahead of where they were. It is a fact, without doubt.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Moen worth at most a 2nd and that is for a team really looking to spend. Campoli may be worth a third considering his play this year and ditto Gill.
The real problem is our Albatross contracts like Gomez and Kaberle. With 11 million we could get a decent player this year and another next year or even pick someone up on a trade as it is there is no real room to improve with whatever is left in cap space going to resigning our guys coming due for a raise Price being top of that list.
There is a way out of this mess with a really good GM…but Gauthier is not the man to lead this team through a delicate rebuild.
by Silvertip on Jan 15, 2012 12:01 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Post-Lockout "Attitude" Trades
Traded Away
Mike Ribeiro
Mikhail Grabovski
Guillaume Latendresse
Sergei Kostitsyn
Mike Cammalleri
In Return:
Janne Niiniimaa
2nd-round pick & Greg Pateryn
Benoit Pouliot
Rights to Nigel Dawes and Dan Ellis (for about 7 days?)
Rene Bourque and a 2nd
This is what happens when you put too much stock in character rather than trying to work with the players you can get. Two lower-tier 1st-line centres, a 2nd/3rd-line winger, a 3rd-line winger, and a 1st-line winger traded (/exploitation 2nd-line winger) all gone. The best you get in return in any of those trades is a 2nd-line winger who has taken a step back this year, may have injury issues, and is allegedly does not come smelling up roses when it comes to attitude himself.
Alex Anthopoulos and the Toronto Blue Jays understand the role “attitudes” have in trying to put together a winning team – those players may be undervalued in trades. It would be nice to have some enlightened management in Montreal adopt a similar attitude.
by Roke on Jan 13, 2012 12:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It actually was the rights to Dustin Boyd, not Dawes (he came in the Sopel/Maxwell trade), but the point remains.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
by Bruce Peter on Jan 13, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Boyd, not Dawes
Ugh. Thanks Bruce. I remember writing something about how the Pyatt-Boyd-Lapierre line was an awful 4th-line but Boyd got sent down before I was able to put it up as a fan post.
What ever happened to Dawes anyway?
Also, it’s been so long since we’ve had news about markov, I hope the media types start haranguing the team for injury details, it’s going to be golden.
Montreal Canadiens///Toronto Blue Jays///Baltimore Ravens
KHL
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 13, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Add in the classic Roy for nothing, Chelios for Savard, Carbonneau for Montgomery and Claude Lemieux for Sylvain Turgeon and you have a pretty good database for showing it rarely ever works.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
by Chris Boyle on Jan 13, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
The sad thing is I liked every single one of those post-lockout trades until shortly after the Kostitsyn one. How naive.
It’s funny that the Habs might not have had to trade for Gomez if they had kept Ribeiro and/or Grabovski. Maybe Gainey still makes the move to shore up the even-strength play but it wouldn’t have been as important to do so.
That was more or less the point I was trying to make this morning (that Gauthier seems to have decided to start selling about a month ago) but I didn’t analyze it in such depth. Excellent post.
Although: at the time the decision was putatively made, the predictive metrics were terrible. Gomez’s absence had sent the team’s Fenwick to 40%. It may have factored in the decision despite the tantalizing closeness of 8th place.
But: in that case, trading for Kaberle what, two weeks before the decision to tank, that made little sense. Unless the decision was made above the GM’s head.
I mentioned that yesterday. Why acquire Kaberle, then dump salary.
Unless they think Kaberle+Bourque is better than Cammalleri.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
At the risk of being shouted-down, I’ll posit this hypothetical.
I’m P.G. I am actively shopping Cammalleri as P.G. said for ‘over a month’(maybe b/c I’m trying to tank, maybe b/c I’m trying to improve the team right now)
But then Mike goes and opens his mouth with the ‘loser’ talk. For a guy with 9 goals (160th in the league) and a -3.33 Corsi I’d shut up and quietly cash my 6 million.
Now, if I’m P.G. and am trying to shop Cammalleri while dealing with the fact that Mike has 7 teams he can veto, and I’m dealing with a firestorm surrounding Mike’s comments (I get that some people want to call him ‘brave’ for speaking truth to power, but I see it oppositely, he took the opportunity to apply terms like ‘loser’ etc in a blanket fashion to the team— he didn’t do what would have been ‘really’ brave and specifically reference the coach or management) If I’m P.G. I’m getting worried that whatever value Mike might have had has now taken a precipitous drop. Maybe a team or two that was previously interested is starting to shy away— then I take the deal with Feaster right then and there.
All this to say, that playing/trading Mike last night might not be a sign that this was a reactionary/panic move of the n-degree (it could still be reactionary, of course, but it doesn’t determine a timeline different from the one mentioned by P.G.) but instead a move that P.G. felt had to be made lest things get even worse.
I don’t think his trade value would be diminished from one quote though.
Good general managers look to exploit market inefficiencies. When they see a player on their own roster who may have suffered a stock drop, good GMs will back away and wait for that player to re-acquire their previous value. Then they will trade that player.
One of two things happened IMO. They panicked and emotionally over reacted or Gauthier made this deal regardless of the comments yesterday.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
Cammy has the toughest strength-of-opposition of any Habs forward and still manages a goal per 60 at evens. His 5-on-5 play was not a problem. His production problem is solely on the PP.
And while Gagnon misrepresented his comments to make it sound they were directed at his teammates, I felt, especially in light of his comments following the 4-0 Winnipeg loss, that they were squarely aimed at the coach. Now, if Gauthier is trying to protect Cunneyworth, maybe that’s reason enough to trade him, but that’s still a bad reason to trade a guy.
As earlier stated…..after the Martin firing….PG’s authority was cut back….all trades had to pass the “taste test” of BG and G. Molson. I firmly believe this was a Top down directive to PG to get a deal down quickly. He probably laid out previous discussions with Calgary and it was approved to go ahead and finalize. I’m sure Cammy’s remarks were seen as an affront to the Canadien’s organization. Instead of having a discussion with the Sr. leadership team to discuss those comments it was deemed better to slice and dice him from the team as quickly as possible. The quicker it is done the sooner people will stop talking about it. Who;s talking about last Saturday’s protest? See what I mean? Such scary logic from these deep thinkers?
I think we can safely say a big “Non” to an FAs arriving here this summer and I’m sure that we’re going to be rattling the cages of early round draft pics about wanting to get here quickly….if at all.
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
by Canadian Jet on Jan 14, 2012 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
I still don’t see how that would annihilate the trade value of a guy who is a top line left winger. Players have said much worse, and teams have received bigger packages in return. Moreover, if the rationale is ‘before things get worse’, then you know you’re about to get hosed.
Not trying to criticize this too much…I’m still trying to fathom how a typically conservative P.G. is making moves like this. I think the only explanation comes from higher up. Its patently obvious that Cammy was never shopped. Calgary was a simple move, as he already fit in well there. The word came down to get him out of town, and that’s no way to run a franchise.
by westcoasthabs on Jan 14, 2012 3:55 AM EST up reply actions
“Shots from outside don’t go in anymore”
Gauthier is responsible for looking at the combination he has and deciding what is working and what isn’t He, like any of us, can see that what this team currently generates (good Corsi night or bad) is a lot of chances from the outside.
Personally, I’d have kept Cammalleri and maybe admitted that he needed to be surrounded and alimented by a better player than Desharnais or Plekanec, whatever implication that has. But for his own reasons, I assume Gauthier passed over my evaluation, decided to keep his small centres and instead cobble together a lineup that complemented them better.
Inaction was the easier move here. Panicked into doing nothing. This team was going nowehere, because they’d always have to beat a team that could really ask them to produce good chances in order to score (Philly 2010, Boston in crucial Games of the series last year).
I am not knocked over by the move, but nor do I think it is total madness.
What’s more, Gauthier realizes also he can afford to lose this year. Thanks to injuries, he has an excuse to get that once in a decade high pick that can fall to Montreal.
And let’s be honest, there’d be an equal quarter damning him for the desperation of trying to win when clearly defeat always loomed in an earlier playoff round even with qualification.
Hopefully he gets replaced by someone with more patience. Unless this is coming from ownership in which case they can just make Budaj the GM and let Molson call the shots Islanders’ style.
If they really are trying to lose I would have expected to see a lot more of Budaj. Until then I think either ownership meddling and/or management panic are the best explanations.
Gotta keep Carey happy in a contract year if you want to keep him.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
This would assume that Price wouldn’t be happy with 60 starts.
Budaj is on pace for 10 starts.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
When the team is really, truly out of reach of a playoff spot I think we’ll see Budaj more. Right now the team is in an awkward ‘play to lose but we still have time to close the gap’ mode.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
You are really convinced this is a pre-empted tanking.
I hope it is. I just don’t think they are that calculated and astute.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
I’m not ruling out that the decision was being dictated from Molson. But I don’t see how previously competent hockey people could make these decisions without the idea of chasing the lottery in mind.
The evidence right now points to this. Opinions change, new info comes out, etc., but this is where I’ve come down at this point in time.
They’re either misguided yet calculating or completely ignorant and remkarably petty. There could even be a bit of both at play. Whatever the case, it’s unacceptable.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
It is unacceptable, but I would put my money on Geoff Molson watching the game while he comments on HIO under the name irrational_owner_24 raging GET THAT GUY OUT OF HERE. Then picking up the phone and pissing and moaning to Gauthier.
Either that or Gauthier is a genuis.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
You can’t really tank, but you can make it very hard for a team to win.
Gauthier can afford to start rebuilding his mix now because he doesn’t need Cammalleri’s playoff performance or his goals to help make the playoffs. Because he doesn’t need to make the playoffs. You can see it in the readers comments here and everywhere. there is acceptance. It’s no conspiracy, it’s reading the mood.
The rebuilding of the mix has to happen because if Desharnais is really playing himself into a spot, Gomez is untradeable and the team still likes Plekanec, having four small wingers as well doesn’t bode well for playoff matchups with Pittsburgh (well maybe not a concern at all anymore), Philly, Boston or New York.
Where are you counting 4 small wingers? We had 2 small wingers in Cammalleri and Gionta, one small center in Desharnais. Other wingers on the team are
Pacioretty (6’2), Cole (6’2), Moen (6’2), Kostitsyn, (6’0), Darche (6’2), Blunden (6’4).
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Hasn’t the fact that they gave Boston one of their toughest matchups last year put to rest the myth that small wingers can’t compete with big defenses? Alot of people say that but that seems more like a meme then something actually established by evidence.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 13, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is why the Gauthier comments seem so ridiculous.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
I didn’t believe Gauthier meant a word of any of his comments yesterday.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 13, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Annoying reminder, Cammalleri led that series in scoring….
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
It can’t be true that Cammy lead the team in playoff scoring; shots from the perimeter don’t work anymore. And that is all Cammy does its why he was Traded. It’s true, Gauthier said so.
by Silvertip on Jan 15, 2012 12:21 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
This is what I’m really worried about. If things are as chaotic as they appear to be, we may as well get Reggie and Mario back.
And even if P.G. and B.G. are having a gun put to their head to do this, at what point do you say no, and just resign? Blacklisting is one thing, but going along with the whims of an owner who doesn’t have a clue is no sparkling mark on a resume.
by westcoasthabs on Jan 14, 2012 4:00 AM EST up reply actions
You could keep him happy on a 65 game pace instead of a 75 game pace I’m sure.
Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire
by Andrew Berkshire on Jan 13, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Bob MacKensie was, as usual, making the best points:
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384950
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 13, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
This is bad.
Kent Wilson speaketh: http://flamesnation.ca/2012/1/13/cammalleri-trade-implications
Ridding the Flames of Bourque is also a boon both on and off the ice. Bourque arrived in town as a third-line, PK player who couldn’t score much but could be counted on to take relatively difficult assignments and survive. And despite being one of the Flames strongest overall forwards for the period of about two seasons, he eventually devolved into a third-line, PP player who can score but couldn’t be trusted against any quality competition whatsoever.
Make no mistake, Bourque was a liability and his contract was an albatross as a result. His goal and point totals have been decent since he stepped into the elevator shaft, but he has put up some of the worst possession and scoring chance ratios on the team. Whatever points he was accruing, he was costing the team in spades otherwise. In addition, his unfortunate penchant for taking way more penalties than he draws never went away. This year, for instance, only Corey Sarich has a worse penalty differential than Rene on the Flames.
Pulled from the game thread from Mathman.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
by Chris Boyle on Jan 13, 2012 5:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
his past two seasons were bad
But Wilson has also said that 3 and 4 seasons ago he was a micro-stat darling. Wilson was willing to attribute some of the good to Bourque being paired with Langkow.
Is Langkow better than Plekanec?
Which Bourque will the Habs be getting?
In as long as Pleks is the third line center, then he can help Bourque score.
If the next coach is going to use Pleks correctly as the top two-way guy, however, then Bourque should be nowhere near his wing.
My guess is ridding shotgun with Desharnais playing soft minutes. He probably doesn’t have the legs to keep up with Plekanec or Eller anyway.
Bourque scores 1.41 points per 60 at even strength this season during soft minutes and isn’t getting screwed by percentages, although the team scores a respectable 2.52 goals per 60 with him on the ice so maybe he does power forward things rather than pass.
He’s also outshooting his career rate by a fair bit which masks his shot production dip, which used to be pretty close to 3 a game but is now almost at 2.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 13, 2012 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Randy gives DD second toughs. His depth chart is literally Eller-DD-Pleks. I think. He may have swapped DD and Eller. He’s hard to follow.
Lets wait until he final settles on a line strategy before we try to describe it. Admitted I was thinking about what a competent coach trying to win would do with the lineup
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 14, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Well tonight we’ll apparently see Gomez-Plekanec-Blunden (or Cole on occasion) according to John Lu.
I don’t get it either.
He’s basically built two lines and is using the third line as a catch-all for everyone else.
Either that or he’s giving Eller, MaxPac and DD as many development minutes as he possibly can.
One or two of them could develop with their best player on their line too.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 14, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently his most talent even strength forward is the one he wants centering the spare part line.
Sigh
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 14, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
And he’s with the team’s best possession forward.
When Cole takes his turn on that line, those hapless third-liners won’t have a clue what hit them…
What has happened to our team
I’ve been a Habs fan since 1975. Yep, some darn good years back then. I hail from PA, wear a Plakanec jersey, and wear my Canadiens basebal cap throughout the Middle East and now in Afghanistan. I read a lot of critical articles these past few days and I am totally disgusted. I pride myself in following my favorite teams in each respective sport no matter what (still a Penn State sports fan). But this is utterly ridiculous and truly disappointing. Hopefully this team comes togehter in spite of all this mess and can achieve at least a winning season. Probably a bridge too far, but I will continue to be a Habs fan, an angry one at the moment, but I’ll follow nevertheless. Thanks for your frank assessment; too bad I must agree with you!
Team Metrics
Just wondering if most NHL management teams use a hockey equivalent of sabermetrics in evaluating players.
Some teams do, but I think that a moneyball type situation will have to occur before the NHL gets fully on board.
If you want 30 tweets a day, don't follow me. @ChrisBoyle33
by Chris Boyle on Jan 14, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not going to pretend like I understand Corsi Fenwick etc., but one would think that since the Cap has levelled the salary playing field to a finite degree of variation, teams would want to employ a “moneyball” strategy in order to get a bigger bang for their buck. I have no idea how Gauthier & Co. analyze players but in your view are they employing a sabermetric system? If not, then how do teams like the Habs evaluate players – go to forecaster NHL Watch and read a little blurb?
We think they’re somewhat aware of them, but I don’t think they are tremendously valued within the Habs organization. There’s still a huge emphasis on issues of psychology and character in Montreal which seems to override a lot of decision making.
It certainly seemed Jacques Martin coached to best exploit microstatistical match-ups, though. But I don’t see microstats and the like playing a big role in the Habs’ scouting process, particularly the pro scouting department.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
by Bruce Peter on Jan 14, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno, Bruce. Trading for Gomez certainly was a microstat move.
Martin definitely counted scoring chances at least, and the way he coached clearly indicated that he was aware and valued, if not the microstats, then the things measured by the microstats.
Besides, what we have is ultimately a little primitive compared to what a team could come up with if they tried. For Montreal, hiring a guy full-time just to watch video and count things is a drop in the bucket.
I think Gomez could have been recommended by Martin, though. He was the new coach and as an ex-manager I am pretty sure he was involved in the decision making especially in that first offseason. The Habs wanted a front line centre and targeted Lecavalier, Gomez was the backup plan.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
And in hindsight we’re lucky the Lecavalier deal fell through.
It’s possible that Martin suggested Gomez, yes. Gainey was GM back then, but Gauthier was pro scout.
A friend of mine put together a list of possibilities in June 2009 for trade target amongst centres, and Gomez was quite high up on that one (3rd maybe, I think Vinny was ahead of him and I can’t remember who else was there). This was without microstat analysis and the like (I didn’t really do individual player microstat analysis back then, I looked at team metrics more than anything). Basically his reasoning was the Habs had so much cap room they could afford a guy making 1.5-2 times his actual/perceived value. I didn’t like the list much at the time, but it was quite accurate. Back then it was perceived the Habs would target a centre with size first, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Martin said he didn’t mind small players, valuing speed and possession more than anything else. Gainey obviously had similar feelings from his first version of the team, but at the time he might have been looking to do something different on that front. I’m not sure Gauthier does, same with Cunneyworth, they seem to value size up front a lot more than Gainey/Martin did.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
We can’t know for sure but my guess is that micro-stats pretty much approximate the kind of information a capable and experienced coach like Martin would get through his own methods. Although the systemic approach to gathering information is probably a big part of that for him.
Writer for http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
by Stephan Cooper on Jan 14, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
It was a picture of a half-rink with room for jotting down the events of the play, I believe. He did show them on his Twitter account after Martin was fired.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
Never mind, a bit different than that. 4 full rinks, lineup card for player formations.
https://twitter.com/#!/habsinsideout1/status/148075775629860864
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
So, 1 rink for every period. Wonder what the two cases for each players (4 lines and 4 DPairs, right?) are used for; # and name?
Hmmm. Where did that come from?
Stubbs did a full feature on Martin back in late October, I believe. Probably asked to see it then, but didn’t really have use for it in his piece.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
Thank you for your replies. Out of all the new stats available, would puck possession (Corsi) be the most important? Teams like the Canucks, Red Wings & Bruins that are very adept at possessing the puck seem to do quite well.
There is no be-all, end-all.
But at the team level, Shots+Missed Shots (what they call “Fenwick”, but they really should come up wit a name that makes sense) with the score tied is pretty darn good.
There is a table on behindthenet.ca:
NHL & advanced stats
I’m an older Habs fan aqnd I will always remember a CBC interview done with Sam Pollock on building a successful team. He said something about talent relative to minutes played: Goalies, Defensemen and then Forwards.
I would love to disagree with you but can’t. The organization not only wants to lose but is putting up the middle finger to fans while doing it. I have tickets for a game next month, I can only afford to go once per year and am not even looking forward to it. I will go because I paid $300 for the tickets and I have no chance to get my $ back. But mark my words I will not buy another ticket, or another piece of merchandise until they get rid of Gauthier and his peanut gallery.
by Silvertip on Jan 14, 2012 4:27 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions

by 

















