Habs Top 25 under 25: #3 Max Pacioretty
For years the Habs faithful have demanded the team find and develop a good power forward, and in Pacioretty they may have finally found their man.
Expectations for Pacioretty were not exactly high last summer. He followed up a very good 18 year old year in Michigan with two years split between AHL and NHL were he wasn't particular outstanding in either. In particular, his inability to score goals at the professional level led many to doubt his ability to grow beyond a checking role. When we made these rankings last year he was 7th overall and the 5th forward by the rankings. Our assessment wasn't all that glowing either saying:
"Perhaps it's a matter of him needing some catching up, but his offensive game has yet to translate at the professional level. Still, there is quite a lot to like about his game. He didn't hurt the team at all last year during his 52 games, all from the start of the season, but he wasn't progressing, either. His solid skating, strong physical play, and unselfish game gave him passing grades as a third line player. Unfortunately, the Habs are expecting more from him than that.
This inability to translate his offensive game as a professional (he also only has 8 goals in 55 career AHL games) has brought up some interesting questions. Topham at Lions in Winter, who took part in this project, wonders if Pacioretty might be worth converting into a defender, given his strong skating ability, good passing, and strong understanding of the defensive game. It's a bit of a left field proposition, but we have seen players like Craig Rivet and Andrei Markov move from forward to defense with great success, so there is precedent. However, doing so would be giving up on one of the Habs more promising forward prospects, and at this point seems unnecessary."
Pacioretty immediately started proving people wrong this year with a flat out dominant performance in the AHL Scoring 17 goals and 32 points in 27 games in Hamilton during which time it was possible he was the best player in the entire league. This was more than enough to earn him a call up to Montreal in order to fill the team's biggest hole on the 2nd line LW.
Pacioretty's breakout year continued in the NHL. Its not much of a stretch to suggest he was the second best forward on the team behind Plekanec during his time in the NHL. His 14 goals and 24 points in 37 games prorate out to 31 goals and 53 points over a full season. His success wasn't just a result of a lucky shooting streak either, converting on a fairly typical 12.5% of his shots and the victim of a fairly low 7.01% team shooting rate at even strength. If anything this indicates that he was an even better offensive producer than his pro-rated stats would suggest.
This is reflected by his advanced statistics, where he was an astounding +23.1 on corsi which led the entire league among players with more than 30 games. This means that the Canadiens were flat out dominating territoriality when he was on the ice in a manner similar to how Team Canada would dominate Team Switzerland. This is reflected by his scoring chance data which was an impressive 57%, which is very strong but not as great as his corsi rating (playing with the relatively shot happy Gomez and Gionta probably had something to do with this). These weren't soft minutes against goons and grinders he was dominating either, playing on average 2nd line competition on Gomez's line.
While he got help from a relatively favorable 56% offensive zone start ratio, this was an outstanding performance from a 21 year old that has never played a full season in the NHL. The only reason Pacioretty was not a strong plus player at even strength was he had the misfortune of playing in front of .898 save percentage goaltending.
He also was responsible for completely revitalizing the second line; with Gomez scoring 11 of his 20 ES points despite spending only about 28% of his even strength ice time with him. This also resulted in a strong 55% scoring chance ratio together in comparison to Gomez's normal 52%.
If the even strength play wasn't enough, he also brought a very useful dimension to the power play, which enjoyed its greatest success with him on the ice. By rate he was the best power play goal scorer at 4.05 per 60 minutes, had the second best team goals for rate while on ice ( 8.83 per 60) and the best power play shot generation with a corsi rating of 95.08 among Montreal forwards. His efforts were rewarded with a well earned 7 power play goals and 8 power play points in his 37 games.
And if all that isn't enough, he was also the best Hab at drawing penalties, drawing 1.7 for every 60 minutes of ES time while taking 1.1 for a team leading +.6 penalty differential rate.
| #4: Lars Eller | #3: Max Pacioretty | #2 P.K. Subban |
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MaxPac was rushed into the NHL way too early due to a lack of organizational depth. He looked great as an emergency call-up, then fell back down to earth.
Lesson to be learned when some posters call for the early deployment of kids like Leblanc, Tinordi, Kristo, Avtsin and Beaulieu. If it’s good enough for the Wings, then it’s good enough for me.
Especially for a guy that projects as a powerforward. Bringing him up before he’s physically developed is a bad idea. He kept getting creamed by going to the dangerous areas of the ice without being able to handle himself and push back.
by Stephan Cooper on Sep 1, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Same goes for large sized D-men, hence the need for a slow timeline for Tinordi.
BYW, I loved this series of Top 25 under 25 last year and I’m happy to see it back this summer. A perfect way to keep the Hab connection alive during the dog days of August.
A much more up-to-date listing than HockeyFuture’s Hab thread.
Thanks, this has been a lot of fun to put together, and for us, the process is even two weeks longer (voting, assigning the profiles, etc.) so it helps get us through the end of July, all of August and now into Sept.!
Considering the only Habs news has been the Kostitsyn interview and Jeff Woywitka in that time frame, it definitely helps us out as much as the readers.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
Especially since talking prospects is naturally a subject that lends itself too an optimistic view of things. So much potential for good things before the inevitable unforeseen disasters.
by Stephan Cooper on Sep 1, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
A bit too early to judge this guy
Habs fans love to look towards Pacioretty as the NHL’s next great power forward, perhaps he will be. But I think that there has been a tendency to “anoint” this guy before he has ever accomplished that much. Here is Pacioretty’s NHL career stat line;
GP G A +/-
123 20 29 -9 (on strong defensive teams)
Compare that to Brad Marchand, a guy you people love to hate;
GP G A +/-
122 32 30 +34
or Milan Lucic, a player you people loathe;
GP G A +/-
333 79 104 +59
All three of these players are 23 years old.
Also, I’ve heard Nathan Horton described by Andrew Bershire “as a major disappointment” on the scale of Benoit Pouliot so I took a look at his stat line through 2008 (the year Horton turned 23 years old).
GP G A +/-
290 100 93 +33 ( for some bad Florida teams)
Pacioretty may well turn out to be a very good player, but he’s got some catching up to do with his Bruins peers.
Well, there quite a few issues with that, ahem, analysis:
1- First and foremost, Pacioretty is actually 22 and was drafted a year after Lucic and Marchand, which pretty much invalidates the whole thing right off the bat.
At Pacioretty’s age Marchand had actually played 20 NHL games and had one assist to his name. Suddenly not a very favorable-looking comparison for the Bruin.
Lucic was a much closer comparable: 199 GP, 34 goals, 55 assists — which, over 123 games, would prorate to 21 goals and 34 assists. If you add in playoff games, Lucic’s rate at 22 is quite similar: 24 goals, 35 assists prorated to 123 games. Quite comparable considering that MaxPac’s latest season was ignominously cut short; had MaxPac been able to finish the season, outpacing Lucic’s 22-year-old pace looked quite probable.
2- Which is of pretty limited interest, anyway, as boxcar stats are inherently limited as analysis tools and their predictive values for players of that age are limited. MaxPac’s incredibly strong possession stats in 2010-2011 are a much better cause for optimism regarding him.
3- A pet peeve of mine: Plus/minus is not a defensive stat, by definition, and the name of the stat itself says as much: PLUS. MINUS.
4- Given that you are a Boston fan, and considering that Chara’s breaking of Pacioretty’s neck looks to be a big reason why he hasn’t been able to his totals… one has to wonder if you’re not just trying to troll with your constantly coming here with off-kilter comparisons to razz on Pacioretty and his potential.
Add two things to the Lucic vs Pacioretty: Lucic played sheltered minutes up until this season and his goals total fluctuate wildly with his shooting percentage. Pacioretty’s shooting percentage was average last year (crappy at ES and unsustainably high on the PP) but his shot rates have gone up every season and he’s been playing higher leverage minutes than Lucic for the last two seasons. Also, he’s a better defensive player.
Marchand is a more interesting case: he took more time to arrive and his offensive numbers aren’t spectacular, but he looked at home playing the toughest LW spot on the B’s lineup, along Bergeron. That’s very impressive.
I’m not terribly enamored of Horton, but I have to admit, buddy rakes the points, especially at ES. He may not be a Taylor Hall type of talent, but he has produced at a high level while playing tough minutes for a few years now. If Pacioretty turns this kind of production, I’ll be very happy.
I don’t really get your argument. No one is saying Lucic and Marchand aren’t talented, just that they’re scumbags.
As for Nathan Horton, the comparison wasn’t Benoit Pouliot, it was Andrei Kostitsyn, so if you’re going to use my name, please quote me correctly. The point was someone saying Kostitsyn is a disappointment relative to his peers, and so is Horton. Considering there are 15 players taken in the first two rounds AFTER Horton that are significantly better NHL players, he’s a major bust for a 3rd overall pick. Is he still a decent NHL player? Yes, but that isn’t really the point of the conversation you’re quote mining, is it.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Sep 4, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions

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