Add Joffrey Lupul to the anti-Subban list.
by Kevin van Steendelaar on Feb 13, 2011 2:09 AM EST
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PrintThe Toronto Sun posted this nice piece on the Toronto Maple Leafs Joffrey Lupul calling out the Montreal Canadiens P.K. Subban for not taking off his visor during last night's fight.
Now given this skirmish below with Guillaume Latendresse came more from a large group of players, I really don't see Mr. Lupul making any offers to take off his visor, or ask Latendresse to do the same.
Or here, where he has time, against the Columbus Bluejackets Rotislav Klesla, who by the way is not wearing a visor.
Or agains Brooks Orpik, where again I'm sure he had a visor on.
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The whole thing is absurd.
PK has a big mouth and won’t drop them.
PK likes to pretend he wants to fight but only drops them behind the ref or a teammate.
PK fights but won’t take off his helmet and visor.
It is a moving target. Everytime he does something to answer the criticism, it changes.
If he takes off the visor it will become something else.
The initial criticism from a player was by Richards. Richards fought 5 times his rookie year. Subban just had his 4th in less than 60 games and now we are talking about his visor?
Please.
Check the boxscores of the games when the criticism takes place. You will find one thing in common. The Habs winning EVERY game.
by Chris Boyle on Feb 13, 2011 11:29 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Even Bill Berg on NHL Network called it nonsense.
Lupul is in front of Subban as he’s skating up ice. He turns while dropping his gloves, to invite P.K. to go. Lupul unsnaps his chin strap first, and just as P.K. goes to do the same, Lupul starts throwing punches. Oddly, Lupul’s helmet does not come off until Subban knocks it off. P.K.’s falls off shortly after. Had Lupul taken his head gear off before throwing punches, Subban would have had time to do the same.
As Berg, a long-time Leaf said, it’s just sour grapes. Lupul lost the fight, and the game.
Lost in translation: Here’s a kid with a so-so hockey future, who was playing for a playoff team, and was just traded to the Leafs. Think he’s thrilled. Lupul was probably one of those NHL players polled recently who said the last place he’d ever want to play was Toronto.
Bill Berg got it exactly right, if Lupul wasn’t ready then he shouldn’t have rushed towards Subban.
by Andrew Berkshire on Feb 13, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Orrr PK finds new things to do wrong.
PK fights but won’t take off his helmet and visor.
That’s not Lupul’s issue and I’d hope you’d know it. You’re trying to put words in his mouth. His issue was that PK threw a punch when Lupul was CLEARLY taking his helmet off. Even PK recognized it was an issue because in the box he apologised to Lupul. Putting up videos of Lupul fighting with a visor on is pointless because that’s not what the issue is about but I get that it’s part of defending your player.
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If Lupul wasn’t ready to start fighting, he shouldn’t have rushed Subban. Taking his helmet off or not he went right towards him. It was an idiotic move and Subban threw out a punch. The constant bitching about Subban is getting a little old. And the fact that no one can ever say anything specific just makes it sound even more pathetic.
by Andrew Berkshire on Feb 13, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
PK has his hand up on his chin strap before he rushes Lupul and throws the first punch. He faked taking his helmet off.
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Uh, no. If you watch the replay, he undid his chin strap, about to take his helmet off, skating backwards, and then Lupul rushes forward with his hands on his helmet, then Subban punches. It’s sour grapes, and that’s it.
by Andrew Berkshire on Feb 13, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say Lupul rushed forward, but he did do a cross over to propel himself toward Subban while his hand was on his chinstrap.
Because Subban was going backwards.
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Subban was going backwards because.....
He was taking off his helmet. Lupul’s rushing forward against an inexperienced fighter resulted in a punch being thrown. This is such a ridiculous non-story I don’t even know why we’re talking about it. It wasn’t even a good fight.
by Andrew Berkshire on Feb 13, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
It was a shit fight
Lupul’s rushing forward against an inexperienced fighter resulted in a punch being thrown.
hahahahaha
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Reading that sentence is pretty damn funny. It should say “resulted in an early punch being thrown”
by Andrew Berkshire on Feb 13, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
No
Watch it. He stops and goes forward before he undoes it. OBVIOUSLY Lupul’s upset. So was Richards. Are you surprised?
Again, if Subban didn’t think he did anything wrong he wouldn’t have explained to Lupul that he didn’t realise what he was doing. Your own player says that you’re wrong but you’re too blinkered to admit it.
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Actually if you listen to Subban’s comments, he’s supporting exactly what I’m saying. He says that he didn’t know what Lupul was doing, and they talked about it in the penalty box. That they talked about it and Lupul still bitched after the game just shows that he was bitter about the loss.
by Andrew Berkshire on Feb 13, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Why bother. He is on here to stir it up.
His whole site is around to stir shit up. He attacks Hab fans regularly and you give him exactly what he wants when you get defensive.
Why Hab and Leaf fans go after each other is beyond me. They have played one meaningful game in 30 years where both had something at stake and it was for 17th place.
The Leafs didn’t ascend to the Habs level, the Habs have descended to the Leafs level.
HE would give his left nut for PK Subban and if Lupul was a hab and PK was a Leaf he would be spinning the story you are on the opposite end.
It is a waste of time to convince somebody who A. wants to get you going and B. is defending the crest he has decided to support.
It’s not about Lupul for me, but you don’t understand that because you don’t follow the Canadiens.
This is about the media egging this shit on. It is a non-issue. Lupul has fought players with his visor on and didn’t exactly motion for PK to take his helmet off. I don’t fault Lupul for fighting Klesla with his visor on because the fight wasn’t staged stupidity, it was actual emotion that lead to it.
It is a moving media target that changes each time Subban confronts one of their ridiculous challenges. The Leafs lost and Lupul lost a close fight, instead of taking the high road he gives a half I respect his decision, but……
All Hab fans are tired of players and the media ignoring the things he does great and focusing 100% of their energy on nonsense. The issue isn’t the visor, it is the whiny attitude of the players after losses.
Richards complains about PK not “respecting” his elders like he did when he fought 5 times in his rookie year. Subban is up to 4 fights in 60 games. Does he respect his elders now?
Marchand talks about “how he talks and doesn’t back it up”. Marchand ZERO career NHL fights, PK has 5. Does he back it up?
Lupul complains about him suckering him while taking off his visor? I didn’t see Lupul to concerned about offering Klesla the same courtesy with Klesla not wearing one at all. So how can he have anything negative to say?
I am over the stupidity of Leaf and Hab nations consistent hypocrisy when it comes to similar players, but this PK stuff is bullshit and sooner or later somebody is going to bring the race card into this if it doesn’t stop.
I’ve already written a post, as to whether it is a racism issue, a few weeks back.
Kevin van Steendelaar
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Feb 13, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve already written a post, as to whether it is a racism issue, a few weeks back.
And it’s not. It’s a “doesn’t conform” issue.
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It’s happened to other ‘personalities’ in the NHL. Brett Hull and Jeremy Roenick are two guys that were shit on for their non-conformity. You can try to use a loaded word like ‘uppity’ to bring it back to a racial angle but maybe you are just speaking about your experience with habs fans. They are the ones that threw a banana at Kevin Weekes and wore blackface to a game after all.
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Here’s where I lose your logic, and that of several other non-Habs commenters/bloggers/you name it.
You all seem to make Habs fans as a collective mentality. Trust me, they’re not.
The generalization is that they are all ignorant, frenchspeaking, banana throwing, blackface wearing, car burning lunatics….. Yeah, that’s them in a nutshell (rolls eyes).
What nobody outside of Montreal seems to have noted is that all the ones who have called out Subban have done there share of misdeeds in the past. But the MSM’s don’t turn around scold them for being hypocritical.
Kevin van Steendelaar
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Feb 13, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
The generalization is that they are all ignorant, frenchspeaking, banana throwing, blackface wearing, car burning lunatics….. Yeah, that’s them in a nutshell (rolls eyes).
And you guys do the same with Leafs fans and Bruins fans and other fanbases. Knife cuts both ways.
What nobody outside of Montreal seems to have noted is that all the ones who have called out Subban have done there share of misdeeds in the past. But the MSM’s don’t turn around scold them for being hypocritical.
Because you guys don’t see the forest for the trees. Like I said before, it has NOTHING to do with what the players in question have done in the past. All you guys do when you say “RICHARDS FOUGHT WHEN HE WAS A ROOKIE!!!!” or “MARCHAND NEVER FIGHTS!!!” is satiate your inner kindergartener (“but he hit me first!”). The overarching point of the criticisms is that Subban does not follow hockey’s unwritten rules. Richards and Marchand are outlining two of those rules:
- Respect your elders
- Face the consequences of your actions
The one where I think you can definitely say the media is picking on Subban is when they made him apologise for celebrating that OT winner against Calgary. That was absolute bullshit. First off, it wasn’t excessive and second it was completely appropriate.
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Once again more ridiculous one-sided nonsense.
Respect your elders? What proof do you have that PK is not respecting his elders? You are going on hearsay and veiled statements made by Mike Richards.
Does Mike Richards respect his fellow players? Really? Ask Booth how much Richards RESPECTS players in the league.
Like I said before. You have decided to add your two cents into an issue that you DO NOT intimately follow. Unless you follow the Habs on a daily basis (which wouldn’t surprise me, because Leaf Nations sole focus seems to deal with the success of another team) then you haven’t followed this story intimately.
Instead you come in an offer a one-sided view from a point that has a severe confirmation bias against the Habs.
Here are the players/media members offering criticism.
Cherry, Stock, Milbury, Richards, Dubinsky and Lupul. Not exactly the brightest and the most respected players/media in the league, but I guess we should just decipher what “we feel” as individuals fit our individual viewpoint regardless of vague facts.
I don’t see Canadiens fans making up “Reimer sucks” posts and paying $200 to sponsor Carey Price’s hockey reference page to mock him. That is you trying to incite. Why would we possibly expect you to take a mature viewpoint on it like Peter from Silver Seven.
I guess the respect the elders thing only holds for NHL players?
Nobody cares about your opinion here .
by Chris Boyle on Feb 14, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Hilarious
This doesn’t have anything to do with hypocrisy on my part.
Marchand and Richards aren’t referring to themselves when they say that Subban has to back it up or that he has to respect his elders. They are referring to hockey’s unwritten code of bullshit. Subban gets shit on because he rises above the mundane opinions and actions of the rest of the league. It’s happened to lots of players on lots of teams over lots of seasons.
Lupul complains about him suckering him while taking off his visor? I didn’t see Lupul to concerned about offering Klesla the same courtesy with Klesla not wearing one at all. So how can he have anything negative to say?
I’ll assume that you are not as obtuse are you are being right now. I get it, your player is being attacked so rather than defend his actions you’re making complete non-sequitirs. Lupul fighting with his visor on before has 0 bearing on whether Subban threw an early punch.
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And I say all of this as a guy that really likes Subban and thinks he’s going to be a really good player (and already is one).
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Early punch is your excuse to criticize. You think you are the only Leaf fan I know to come up with this ridiculous nonsense?
What is obtuse is running around mocking other franchises when the one you support has been an utter joke for the better part of 40 years.
by Chris Boyle on Feb 14, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Lupul said it was about Subban not taking the visor off, and he made the move toward Subban first.
In the box he apologised to Lupul.
Then why was he whinning……cause he was traded to the Leafs!
I would be sad too but at least he doesn’t have to deal with a fanbase that deflects all criticism of Subban with cries of “RACISM!” while supporting fans that painted themselves black or has a portion of the fanbase that wants to see more francophones on the team.
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Nobody supported the imbeciles that dressed in black face at the Bell Centre.
Are you surprised there is portion of the fanbase wanting francphones? The team is in Quebec!
Kevin van Steendelaar
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Feb 13, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Lots of people supported them either by taking pictures with them or by telling them what great outfits they had or through their silence. Not to mention the fans that did so online afterwards.
Are you surprised there is portion of the fanbase wanting francphones? The team is in Quebec!
Those same people would be howling if Vancouver wanted BCers at the expense of Quebeckers.
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“Lots of people”, as in media maybe. Which in itself was rather stupid. RDS didn’t help it by putting them on the air.
Chalk it up to ignorance to what that meant in the past.
Shhhhhh There’s already a contingent to get Luongo out of Vancouver and sign Price in two years. They may throw a qualifier at Gorges too this summer, provided his knee is OK.
Kevin van Steendelaar
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Feb 13, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
“lots of people” as in part of the fanbase.
There’s already a contingent to get Luongo out of Vancouver and sign Price in two years
Jesus. And you guys have a rap for being hard on goalies? Poor Luongo.
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To be fair to the blackface guys, I think it’s a case of cultural ignorance. Surely, nobody is suggesting that they meant to insult Subban. I got the impression that they were doing it to support him. Was Whoopi Goldberg insulted when her boyfriend picked her up for a Halloween party in blackface, or was it American society that condemned Ted Danson for his politically incorrect ironic costume?
The truth is, many Quebecois choose not to be saturated with Americana and therefore would not understand the undertones of an Al Jolson performance – which, by the way, was offensive more for the propagation of stereotypes about speech and manner. The actual makeup itself is only symbolic of that offensive portrayal.
My point is that those fans weren’t behaving in the traditional Jim Crow manner, or acting foolish in order to disparage Subban. They were simply ignorant to the current American association of blackface to racism.
Or maybe I’m wrong. I didn’t really follow the story.
But let me put it this way. How acceptable is it for bloggers/members of blogging communities to use the term frog, or to imply that the Quebecois people are cowards, based upon their own ignorant association of Quebec with some members of the 1940s French government?
And it’s not even bloggers’ fault. They take their cue from mainstream sources where it is acceptable to use such phrases as Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys. Surely this meme has appeared frequently on these internets without inspiring condemnation. It may even be used right next to someone else condemning these blackface fans.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 13, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
So yeah, we as Anglos understand the absolute taboo of dressing in blackface, but do we, as Anglos, understand the level of extreme offensiveness of using derogatory terms about the Quebecois people?
Of course they should not have dressed in blackface, and I’m sure that they now understand exactly why, but even though Anglo Canadians and Americans are certain that their use of derogatory terms for Quebecois is designed to insult, I predict that the practice will continue.
Calling out Habs fans for their silence, when implicitly allowing unmitigated hatred towards the Quebecois, or even the French people, is a bit much. Maybe Karina or Wrap or Blurr would never stand for someone implicitly accepting a person dressed in blackface, but I never saw them up in arms about latent, or especially blatant racism against the French, let alone how treating the Quebecois people as extensions of the French is in itself, ignorant and bigoted.
Or to put it another way, what would liberal members of some communities say about someone equating Croatians with the actions of a “fellow” Yugoslavian like Tito or Milosevic. I have never once heard of a person of Columbian descent being held accountable for the actions of Franco.
And besides, how many other countries capitulated to Hitler’s massive army? Is it that the French surrendered too quickly? I just don’t get it. I guess we Anglos are to blame for Chamberlain’s appeasement, regardless of which country we were born in. Holy fuck, do I digress.
Anyway, I don’t like the way Subban is portrayed in the media, and I suspect it is rooted in racism, but what I know for sure is that racism against the French is a perfectly acceptable form of art, just as blackface was 60 or 80 years ago. Or gay jokes as recently as 10 years ago.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 14, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Who cried racism? I said “the media” will grab onto it soon if this stupidity does not stop.
by Chris Boyle on Feb 14, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
PK is outstanding
Hey, I really don’t like the Habs, but PK is awesome. I can’t stand all the hate. It’s ridiculous, and has me wondering what the root cause for it is. I wonder if some people think that maybe Darren Pang was white right when he made that little slip, and it makes me sad.
I don’t know why people can’t just enjoy the energy this kid brings to the game.
An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com
by Peter Raaymakers on Feb 13, 2011 12:39 PM EST reply actions
I think you nailed it Peter, and it is sad.
What I notice most is what is unsaid. People don’t come out and specifically say what gets them about P.K. They simply generalize on this “lack of respect” thing.
So he chirps….big whoop. Not the first rookie to ever do it, but maybe the first black rookie to be so brash.
My daughter played with a black girl on her team for five years. Racism is well-dishuised in Canada. People think it, they just don’t say much. It slips out in other ways.
I shiver to imagine what Willie O’Ree, Larry Kwong, Herb Carnegie, et al. had to endure back in the day. Good on Subban for refusing to wear the Huckleberry collar handed to him by the old-guard hockey establishment (including those on his own team). His enthusiasm and energy for the game is genuine, infectious, and refreshing to watch. If the NHL fraternity wants to put “disrespectful” players in their place, they should begin with the likes of Matt Cooke and Sean Avery who do more damage to the integrity of the game than the youthful PK.
Such Biased Reporting is unreal...
Both CBC and TSN show footage of Lopul’ s reaction but not Subban’s. What about The Maple Leaf who hit Subban from behind and shot the puck at him. How come CBC did not get Subban’s reaction of that.
The whole game was The Maple Leaf show, ‘Kessel watch’, etc., back to back penalties against the Canadiens during the 1st half as if the Leafs played like saints and didn’t deserve any penalty call…
This is why I like this site where fair and objective reporting is done with backed up references. Unlike the other media outlets.
Can’t wait till the season ends and Leafs are out. Then Canadians get to see real hockey.
The CBC commentators did mention the puck beong shot at Subban. I think Healy said it could warrant supplemental discipline.
“This is why I like this site where fair and objective reporting is done with backed up references. Unlike the other media outlets.”
Appreciate the comment, but we/I make our share of mistakes from time to time, such as blaming the wrong Boston radio announcers for something another pair said. :O
Kevin van Steendelaar
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but don't forget...
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Feb 13, 2011 6:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The CBC is a joke, I watch games in RDS to avoid listening to the Leaf and Bruin Homers.
It is amazing that in a fight where both players go at it with consent and visored players fight ALL THE TIME that this is the focal point and not a player shooting a puck at another player after the whistle. When Alfreddson did it to Niedermayer Leaf fans used confirmation bias to prove that Alfredsson is a jerk, when their own player does it, it is because Subban has a big mouth.
When Alfreddson did it to Niedermayer Leaf fans used confirmation bias to prove that Alfredsson is a jerk, when their own player does it, it is because Subban has a big mouth.
And if Subban did it you’d say that he was just caught up in the motion. For the record, Boyce’s move was total bush league but you can stop pretending that your fanbase wouldn’t and doesn’t do the same thing.
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That was the point. Cry when it’s not you, defend when it is.
I don’t care what the Habs fanbase does, the do not represent me. They are just as retarded on a whole as Leaf Nation.
I wrote plenty of things about Price where they turned against me for Halak. I had morons from PPP come over and try to mock my about the Canadiens trading Halak when I wanted them to do so. I am sure you guys thought the Canadiens were stupid to make that deal too.
I don’t really care. I represent me and nobody else. Lump me in with other Hab fans all you want, but it doesn’t change my perception or opinion about what is ridiculous and this PK Subban thing is ridiculous.
I saw less whining by Tom Pyatt and Jaro Spacek when they were attacked by the Bruins then Lupul because Subban didn’t give him an extra second to take off his helmet.
It is weak. I don’t care what jersey Lupul or Richards wear.
by Chris Boyle on Feb 14, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
pk stink
he may have talent but ill take victor hedmen or pk anyday
Where to begin with that comment...
I’m at a loss as to where to start with this reply.
For starters, it’s Victor Hedman.
Kevin van Steendelaar
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but don't forget...
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Feb 13, 2011 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m just to the point of rolling my eyes. When we’re debating about getting a fractional advantage in a fight, it’s really just grasping at straws.
Haters gonna hate.
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Like I said, considering that Pyatt and Spacek didn’t complain about being jumped and pummeled by goons with Pyatt’s face being raked up by an elbow pad.
I didn’t see the “I will give Campbell the benefit of the doubt, this time, but he has a reputation for a reason” coming from Pyatt’s mouth after being assaulted.
It is extremely lame and a continuation of ridiculous hate.
by Chris Boyle on Feb 14, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t see the "I will give Campbell the benefit of the doubt, this time, but he has a reputation for a reason" coming from Pyatt’s mouth after being assaulted.
This is what separates the Canadiens from the rest of the league. Neither did PK Subban complain after the game about getting hit with the puck. The Canadiens are a class organization.
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