Habs Trade Spacek for Kaberle
We've been hearing for 3 seasons now that Spacek is an untradeable player due to his contract, but now he's been dealt for another player that legions of fans call untradeable as the Montreal Canadiens exchange Spacek for Tomas Kaberle in a trade with the Carolina Hurricanes.
In the wake of the trade Frederic St. Denis has been sent back to Hamilton, which will surely help the Bulldogs' decimated defense corps.
Over the last several years and over their careers Tomas Kaberle has been vastly superior to Jaroslav Spacek, so what's the catch? Well Spacek is a UFA after this season, and although Kaberle only earns 417K more this season, he has 3 remaining years on his contract including this one.
Cue the impotent internet rage.
You would think that after the James Wisniewski trade, signing Erik Cole, finally luring over Alexei Emelin and making the right move with Carey Price and Jaroslav Halak (signing Price to a steal of a deal), that Pierre Gauthier would get some benefit of the doubt from Habs fans about his level of intelligence, but no. Instead everyone is assuming that this will cause us to lose Josh Gorges or Andrei Kostitsyn. Because we all know how great the majority of Habs fans are at predicting the moves the organization makes, right?
So everybody calm down. Stop worrying about what ifs and let's look at what is. Cap space can be created in the offseason and as Elliott Friedman has noted, Kaberle is very tradeable during the offseason. So does Kaberle improve the Canadiens right now?
This is the big question, and undoubtedly Kaberle is a better player than Frederic St- Denis, but really who he will be replacing is the man he was traded for. Most likely he will be expected to play on the 3rd defense pairing like Spacek was. Not much on behindthenet.ca makes Kaberle look very good. He's negative on puck possession with a weak quality of competition. However his Qualcomp rating isn't even close to Spacek's so he'll likely be far more sheltered in Montreal than he was in Carolina. Kaberle's Qualcomp in Carolina was -.071, compared to Spacek's -.237. That's a large difference. In fact the closest score to Kaberle on the Habs is Raphael Diaz, who's at -.070 and he's been playing second pairing minutes all year.
Kaberle was also sheltered by the Rel Corsi Qualcomp measure, which is the average relative Corsi rating of his opponents. He was most sheltered among Carolina's D with -.165 rating. Again however, Spacek was far more sheltered with a -1.116 rating.
Both Kaberle and Spacek were sheltered in zone starts, with Kaberle starting 54.9% of his shifts there, and Spacek starting 58.1% of his shifts there. So we're seeing a trend line here. Both players were treated as a 6th defenseman on their team at even strength, but Montreal's coaching staff is far more efficient at sheltering players than Carolina's. This is possibly because P.K. Subban and Gorges are so strong on tough minutes matchups.
So aside from sheltering, how was their play? In a bit of a preview for our upcoming first quarter player review, I'll break down how we evaluated players over the first 22 games using Spacek's stats, then I'll bring in Kaberle as a comparable.
Jaroslav Spacek
As you can see, Spacek was way below par on possession. His 441 Corsi score is pretty bad considering his soft minutes, but because he and the team block a lot of shots, his Fenwick and Corsi look slightly better. Overall however, the Canadiens only possessed the puck 44.1% of the time when Spacek was on the ice. Not the worst 3rd pairing defenseman in the world, but not a world beater.
Spacek had a below team average on ice shooting percentage at even strength (average was 7.4% over the first 22 games), but received far above average goaltending that just isn't sustainable over long periods. This brought Spacek's PDO to 1027, which means he was getting pretty lucky out there. His luck from Price and Peter Budaj playing so well for him gave him a nice positive +/- number.
Now you can see that Spacek was a negative on the scoring chance count, but because I don't have Kaberle's numbers there I'm going to ignore that because it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
Tomas Kaberle
Right away one thing is obvious; Kaberle is a much better possession player than Spacek is. He's still below par, but remember that he wasn't near as sheltered as old Jaroslav. If he plays the same position Spacek was playing, it is very likely that he can become a positive possession player with Montreal.
Another thing to notice is that Kaberle was given average goaltending (by Montreal's standards) at even strength, however his team's shooting percentage while he was on the ice is Gomezian. That kind of shooting percentage usually doesn't last very long, and he'll likely regress to the mean at about 7.5% over the course of the year. Because of his team's low shooting percentage his PDO is also much lower than Spacek's is, meaning random variance wasn't in his favour so far this season. This contributed heavily to his low +/- rating, but it's also important to know that Kaberle's true +/- is far better than that listed on his stats page. Listed as a -12, a whopping 6 of those minuses came from shorthanded and empty net goals.
SHOOOOOT!!!!
Throughout his career, Kaberle has been vilified as a player who doesn't shoot enough. But is it even true? Our own Bruce Peter went through the last few years to check where Kaberle ranked on his respective teams shot totals among defensemen:
He had 1.93 shots/game in 2009-10, and 1.59 per game in 2010-11. He was at 1.71 per game before the trade to Boston.
Kaberle would've been first on the Habs in shots on goal in 2009-10, and third last year behind Subban and Wiz. His Toronto shot rate would put him about tied with Weber for shots by a d-man on this year's team, 2nd on the team.
Maybe he doesn't shoot as often as many fans want, but after 931 games played and 538 points you would think some people would give him the benefit of the doubt.
Durability
Another reason Kaberle is a significant upgrade over Spacek is that he's younger and more durable. Kaberle has played 82 games 4 times in 6 seasons after the lockout, a 5th season with 74 games and is on pace to play 80 this year after a couple healthy scratches in Carolina. He's only sustained one major injury since 2007 and it was a broken right hand.
No one should be expecting the world here, we essentially got this guy for a spare part who barely plays, but allow for the possibility that Kaberle just wasn't a fit with the Hurricanes. Despite all the ranting about how terrible he was for Boston last year in the playoffs, he still had 11 assists and registered a +8 rating, including 5 PP assists on that horrendous Boston powerplay.
If you're expecting 10 goals and 60 points you're sure to be disappointed, but if you're expecting a solid 3rd pairing defenseman who can dish pucks to Subban on the powerplay while helping the transition game at even strength, Kaberle is probably going to perform to your expectations.
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It is amazing how fans can demand a fix, the GM goes and fixes the biggest weakness on the team and the focus moves from the component that needed fixing to what the cap looks like next season.
This is confirmation bias at it’s finest. Searching and latching onto the most negative aspect of the trade and ignoring the powerplay skills, the better possession stats and the overall quality of the player acquired in comparison to the one going out.
It is typical fan nonsense. If Kaberle never gets better than he is right now he is still BETTER than the brittle Spacek.
The fans are moving the target and then bitching about the lack of accuracy.
Either I notice it more now or this fervor is at the highest intensity I have ever seen.
It must be tough for them since 29 other fanbases are busy laughing themselves silly about it.
That, and the GM of Carolina was saying the contract is a mistake.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Rutherford can say whatever he wants, look at his team.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
I try to avert my eyes. Nobody likes a rubbernecker around trainwrecks
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I do think it’s funny now though that Bruins fans who were saying Kaberle was good in the last 3 rounds last year are now laughing. Lots of inconsistency.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Colborne and a 1st wasn’t it?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
(Most Bruins fans hated Kaberle)
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
(I wasn’t one of them but his contract is atrocious)
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Pouliot?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Wait until the playoffs, you’ll think 5 bucks would be atrocious.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
eh…
- decent-enough 3rd liner when playing with Kelly and Peverley
- 3 GWGs
- nothing special
- no longer beating up David Krejci
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
His contract sucks, but so did Spacek’s. I doubt he’ll be here for the duration so meh.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
How are you so sure? Do you think he’ll retire?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
No I don’t think he’ll retire, but that contract is easy to move in the offseason. And even if it isn’t, then Gomez will be gone and they’ll still be fine. I’m not worried at all.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
He was nothing special
but definitiely there are worse options out there that is for sure. I just got a kick out of the he will be dishing pucks to Subban on the PP…we thought that about Chara and it didn’t turn out so well. Granted the PP for the Bruins was atrocious last year.
As long as he gets the benefit of zone starts he should be fine. The one thing I noticed is that Kaberle seems to have a tougher time against the physical lines and he’s actually a bit better against a 2nd line. The lower lines generally wear him down over the game and he just cant take on a team that cycles the puck low. Pair him up with someone that can play a bit more of a physical game and you should be fine with him. Hes not the best but certainly not the worst.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
I wish Matthew Stafford was Drew Brees. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
Didn’t he end up not playing very much with Chara? I feel like it was Kaberle – Siedenberg on the PP a lot last year to save Chara for the tough matchups.
But yeah, we’re not expecting him to be great, just better than Spacek.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, all I want is a guy who can control the puck at the blueline on the PP and avoid 2 on 1’s that end up in the back of the wrong net.
Well Kaberle has been on for 3 SH goals against with the Canes but that doesn’t mean they were his fault. He’s definitely better than Gorges on the point.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
I cant remember all of them but at the start it was Kaberle feeding Chara, then they moved Chara to the net, then they asked the water boy to try to set up screens and deflections. Basically tried it all and nothing worked.
I can understand both sides of the fence on the trade but in the end I would rather have Kaberle than Spacek. I guess Carolina is taking on the “Fail for Nail” campaign with Columbus and Anaheim.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
I wish Matthew Stafford was Drew Brees. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
I definitely see the trade as Carolina admitting a failed season.
From what I remember of the playoffs last year, Boston wasn’t just bad on the PP, they were also incredibly unlucky. But they got it together against Vancouver didn’t they?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
No, I don’t think they did. They still got a ton of goals 5 on 5. Same thing was happening this year, though I haven’t checked during their win streak if the PP is going (you’d have to think it is).
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Well one thing that doesn’t jive with what a lot of the MSM guys are saying right now, Kaberle had 8 points in the last 14 games of the playoffs. That’s pretty damn good.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
He played a bit better as the playoffs wore on and I think a lot of that had to do with the lack of icetime he was getting. Again dont know where to find it but I think he maxed out around 12 mins a game and for a 3rd pairing guy you cant ask for much more. The problem was everyone thought we were getting a top 4 guy in Kaberle last year and as your article clearly points out he is not unless you are a master at matching lines and situations.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
I wish Matthew Stafford was Drew Brees. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
He could be a top 4 guy if he’s paired with a Subban or a Chara or someone around that level, but so was Komisarek for one season.
Looking at his game-log now, he was getting pretty inconsistent ice time, probably based on game situations. Starting from the TB series he got:
17, 15, 13, 12, 13, 20, 13, 14, 12, 16, 17, 15, 19, 9.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Its actually quite funny when you look at it....
I think with the exception of Game 6 in the TB conf finals series his higher TOI came at home where CJ had last change and knew where he was starting and who he was against.
Game 6 of the Conf Finals we were up 3-0 (or close to that I think) pretty quick so I assume thats why all the ice and ironically we blew that lead!
Game 6 of the SCF (which I was lucky to be at) we were up 4-0 after the first so again he could be used a bit more.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
I wish Matthew Stafford was Drew Brees. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
Game 7 you guys went up really quick as well, but Julien used Kaberle sparingly, which means he was being pretty conservative.
Looking at it now, oddly enough, Kaberle was a minus player only once after the 1st game against Montreal. That’s some damn good management by Julien.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
With the way Chara and Seidenberg were playing together they were eating up close to 30 mins each a game which only leaves another 60 mins to be divided up by the other 4…makes using your other 2 pairs a bit easier with how well those two were playing together.
As for Game 7…even with the lead I dont think CJ wanted to take any chances.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
I wish Matthew Stafford was Drew Brees. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
CJ clearly made the right decision.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
5 on 5
was where we made it happen just like this year again so far.
The PP is below league average again this year…I think if I remember correct we are around 17th or 18th.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
I wish Matthew Stafford was Drew Brees. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
Funny thing about the PP was that one PP it would look like it was getting close only to be followed by 2 minutes of the other team playing dump and chase in our end while shorthanded.
They were unlucky at times but most of it was a lack of a good system for the players out there. Not sure how much you remember but the biggest issue was that it was so static. A lot of passes around the outside and a lot of standing and watching. No one player is going to fix that but shuffling the guys around so you have a net presence on each unit as well as a big shot and a guy that can make the pass through the seam would have helped with the way the PP was being run last season. Last year for the B’s it was basically a roll through of the lines with Bergeron manning the point once and a while.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
I wish Matthew Stafford was Drew Brees. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
You’re definitely right about the players being static. I remember that from the Montreal series. It was confusing because that top line of Marchand – Bergeron – Recchi was fantastic at cycling and moving the puck at ES. Bringing a forward up to the middle of the blueline gave Montreal fits the whole series.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s at the highest intensity ever. People were mad in 2009 because the team was blown up and not successful, but they expected it to suck without Markov. This year people expected a much better team, got an elite team that couldn’t buy a result, then a ton of injuries and it’s just vitriol and nonsense. No matter when Gauthier does he’s a failure right now. Hell, if he fired Martin tomorrow which tons are clamouring for, the FIRST thing people would complain about is how the new coach is French (he would be), no way they give him a chance.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Martin is irreplaceable by any stretch, but he’s certainly not replaceable by any bilingual coaches that don’t already have NHL jobs right now.
by despisethesun on Dec 9, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. There are very few coaches out there right now that I think could replace Martin.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
No faith in Marc Crawford or Bob Hartley? ;)
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Well, you wanted the fans to stop complaining about Carey Price for no reason and when they do and start bitching about management, it’s still not good enough.
Talk about the pot calling the irrational kettle stupid.
Or something like that…
by Simon Lamarche on Dec 9, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just to be clear, you got that this was sarcasm right? I just wanted to remind you of a time not so long ago when fans were just as crazy…
by Simon Lamarche on Dec 9, 2011 9:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hahaha
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
For me, I think the howling is less due to the fact that Kaberle is “teh suck” (he hasn’t been great the last few months, but his body of work in Toronto was solid), and more because he’s a poor man’s Andrei Markov, and his acquisition signals that the Habs have given up on the idea of Markov ever being 100% again. Which is not to say that he’ll never be back, merely that he can’t be relied upon to be a regular contributor for the rest of his contract.
At least, that was my interpretation. Maybe the sky really is falling for everyone else.
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Instead everyone is assuming that this will cause us to lose Josh Gorges or Andrei Kostitsyn.
This part is great because I bet most of those people were calling for Kostitsyn to be traded anyway.
In seriousness, cap concerns are legitimate going forward but not a big concern right now and I’m concerned about whether he can be the player he was in Toronto. But he definitely fills a need, and most of the objections I’ve heard so far are fairly ridiculous. Someone actually said to me that this would keep Tinordi and Beaulieu, as well as other young D prospects, out of the NHL. This contract only runs for two more seasons after this. I would be absolutely shocked if any of the Habs’ current D prospects were NHL-ready by the time Kaberle’s contract is up. At most, this keeps some of the borderline guys in the AHL, which is fine, there are no Subbans in Hamilton waiting for their crack at the NHL at the moment.
This part is great because I bet most of those people were calling for Kostitsyn to be traded anyway.
Sooooooo true.
I could see Beaulieu forcing his way onto the team either next year or the one after, but I’m reasonably confident that Kaberle is only here until the the offseason.
I actually saw someone on twitter awhile ago saying we could have got more for Spacek. More. For Jaroslav Spacek. An overpaid soon to be 38 year old who’s injured as often as he is healthy.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:14 PM EST reply actions
This is supposed to be a reply to despisethesun, whoops.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I just don’t see Beaulieu making it that quickly, young D tend to need more development time than forwards to iron out the wrinkles in their game. I’d expect him to spend at least a year in Hamilton once he turns pro.
As for Spacek, the Habs were lucky to get anything for him. Expiring contract or not, he was expensive, declining and frequently injured. I’d say the Habs won the trade in the short term, even if Spacek to Kaberle is a lateral move or slight downgrade, he’s an NHL defenseman who can fill a needed role now. But I think the concerns about the future are valid, too, depending on how things shake out over the rest of this season.
by despisethesun on Dec 9, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Next year Beaulieu will be in Hamilton, he was a late ‘92 birthdate so he actually can leave junior next season. So, with one year in Hamilton, he could be ready by 2013-14, with one year left on Kaberle’s deal if he’s still around.
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This is mostly what I was thinking. I’m a big Beaulieu fan though.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I thought he’d have another year of junior after this for some reason. Either way, I’m not really too worried about Kaberle keeping him from a roster spot. He’ll need development time, and when he’s ready, I’m sure the team can find a way to make room for him one way or another.
by despisethesun on Dec 9, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
If the Habs keep Kaberle, his contract would run out in time for Tinordi or Beaulieu to come up the pipeline. The money is a small issue, but the timing wouldn’t be bad.
Tinordi first
I think Tinordi will be given a shot to make the team before Beaulieu. Just because he’s closer in terms of being “NHL ready”. But it would be a bit like comparing apples and oranges if they both turned out to be ready at the same time. Beaulieu will be taking over Markov’s spot at some time in the future (which is high praise, unless we’re referring to Markov’s spot in the sick bay). Tinordi’s ideally going to turn into a cross between Gorges/Emelin.
If Tinordi ends up being a cross between Gorges and Emelin that’s going to be one hell of a great draft pick.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 10, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Same here.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 10, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
BTW, here’s the Friedman quote:
10. One agent and a couple of GMs made an interesting comment about in-season trading. They pointed out that, sometimes, the toughest thing about making deals is not what’s owed on a contract in future seasons, it’s what owed this season. (“If you want, you can dump a contract in the summer,” one GM said). So many teams are at their budgets — or over — because of injuries. Carolina might have to wait a little bit before it can move either player. There is interest in Ruutu. Rutherford seems confident he can trade Kaberle in a month or two as long as the defenceman starts playing better.
So if Rutherford was confident he could be dealt, why wouldn’t Gauthier?
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Exactly. People are overreacting as usual.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
What else are they gonna do on a Friday afternoon?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Write a blog! You should do that sometime btw.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
If you listen to Habs fans right now, not only was Muller the coach behind all of Montreal’s success and none of it’s failures for the last several years, but now he’s telling Jim Rutherford what to do.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:32 PM EST reply actions
Was Yeo ever considered for a Montreal coaching job?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Dec 9, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t think so. He’s not very good anyhow.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say that. The Wild’s issue is depth, that’s why they’re likely to regress. He could be very Martin in 2009-10 like.
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That’s true.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Are you kidding me with this article? Kaberle tradeable? The smart thing to do would have been to keep Spacek, let his contract run out at the end of the year and see what’s available over the summer. Kaberle is on the books for another 2 years at 4+ mil. Whose gonna want that if he sucks? They already have Gomez and we might have gotten another one. I’d rather blow the season up and see what we have in Hamilton then get another veteran bust. Gauthier and Martin out the door should have been today’s moves.
Yeah, we’ve already seen what we have in Hamilton.
I guess the deal with Kaberle is that he might not suck and could be a tradeable asset, or (and I hope not) a fallback option if Markov can’t get back to normal.
And with a new CBA coming up, there is almost assuredly an amnesty buyout window coming if the NHL owners get the players to reduce the % of revenue they take back, like the NBA and NFL both did this summer.
So it might cost Geoff Molson some money but have no impact on the Habs hockey operations. Whoop-de-do.
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playoff dates earn him lots of money anyway. The organization has a big incentive to try remain in contention,
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by Stephan Cooper on Dec 9, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Hamilton? Have you paid any attention to this season?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
half a year ago Kaberle got a king`s ransom. A gamble that you`re in a ``buy low`` situation isn`t the worse thing.
Last year people though Wisniewski was a terrible defender and look at how well he did for the Habs.
I`m somewhat on the fence about this but there is a definite trend were every move Montreal`s management makes is seen as being terrible despite their merits I`ve gotten sceptical of the cries of outrage.
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by Stephan Cooper on Dec 9, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I like the concept of the trade. As mentioned, Spacek is broken down and unreliable, the powerplay isn’t even generating chances anymore, and Markov’s out longer than expected. Contracts also don’t seem as difficult to move (in the off-season) as everyone would have you believe.
That said, I look at Kaberle’s (even-strength) metrics and I’m terrified. When I was playing armchair GM in the off-season I wasn’t impressed with what he’s done in the past two or three seasons and he hasn’t been good in sheltered minutes (very low Qualcomp, Ozone starts) with Carolina – slightly below-water Corsi Rel is what I’m looking at.
Risky move by Gauthier, though I’m sure the narrative in a couple weeks time will once again be that he stands pat and doesn’t take enough chances. If Kaberle shores up the powerplay that’ll bring in at least enough playoff revenue to make an amnesty buy-out a break-even proposition. If Kaberle can be decent at even-strength and play a big role in a powerplay revival trading him won’t be too difficult either.
The move gets St. Denis and (hopefully eventually) Diaz out of the top-6 and Gorges off the powerplay. That’s promising. I wonder if Kaberle’s good enough to be carried by Subban like Gill was in the second half of last year…
I’m wondering if Emelin’s strong development lately will allow JM to break up Subban and Gorges and put Gorges back on the right on the second pairing to spread some D wealth.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
If Emelin can handle Subban’s match-ups that would be terrific and would mean Martin could do some zone-matching with the defensemen if he wanted to. Kaberle-Campoli/Diaz/Weber getting Erhoff usage is an interesting thought.
Big time. I almost forgot about Campoli already. I like the idea of Emelin – Subban, Campoli – Gorges, Gill – Kaberle for now.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
You’re asking Kaberle to play on his off-side there though and I’m not sure if he’s done it before. Mind you, I don’t now if Campoli’s played any significant time on the right side either.
I was thinking Gorges on the right side, and yeah I’m playing Kaberle on his off side unfortunately. Not sure how else to play him right now though.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think Kaberle-Emelin is most likely, to be honest. I think they’ll be putting him on the right side, like they did in practice with Markov. Then it’s either Gill-Subban or Campoli-Subban, Campoli-Gorges or Gill-Gorges.
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I’m really hoping not to see Gill – Subban. I know it worked last year, but Gill seems so much worse at ES this year so far.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think so too but I still fear Emelin might sit even if Diaz or Gill should. Yes, Gill is great on the PK but certainly not 5-5. His even strength minutes also have been pretty low in the last couple of games.
I think we’re all a little worried about it.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
I also like to add that Gill is possibly not as important as many think playing 4-5. 3-5 of course but in the five games he missed in november we were perfect on the PK, killing 17/17 I think. I´d be really tempted to keep in Diaz instead of Gill.
Diaz vs Gill is all about who’s available since they play opposite sides. Honestly though Gill has an A so I doubt Martin would sit him.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I know. Gorges can play both sides, Emelin too I think. Not sure about Diaz. Well, Martin likes his veterans but maybe a little bit of rotation would do some of them really good. In the end it´s about winning and I don´t think Gill would complain if he had to sit in the pressbox. The “A” will but shouldn´t be a factor.
Gill would definitely not complain. Emelin can play either side but seems to be much better on the left. Diaz can only play on the right.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
i understand how y’all feel, i really do. i know that there’s a lot of irrational vitriol out there directed at the canadiens no matter what, and i know you read far more of it than i do and so consequently feel more victimized by it.
however, i do feel you’re characterization of any discomfort with this move as the result of cognitive biases or insanity is a little over-the-top. kaberle and spacek are extremely close players (remember that qualcomp is more accurate for intra-team comparisons rather than cross-team ones, and both spacek and kaberle took the 2nd easiest competition on their respective teams). the canadiens are now paying a helluva lot more (including term) for a small marginal improvement. it’s fine, if not ideal, to overpay for a good player (gomez) but it’s quite another thing to overpay for a ever-so-slightly-better-than-terrible one.
i’m sorry, but the only way i can see that this deal is good is if a) the new cba allows gauthier to somehow devalue or escape those last two years, or b) kaberle turns it around dramatically and becomes the player he was in toronto. i fully grant that both of those are possible, but right now we have no way of knowing, and in the absence of that knowledge, i don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to see it as a misstep. i’m not going to call it the end of the world, but i can’t bring myself to call it good.
Aaah, but if Kaberle may be no more than marginally better than Spacek at evens, the expectation is that he is head and shoulders better on the power play, and the power play is the biggest area of need right now. If you can’t tell the difference between Spacek and Kaberle at evens, but Kaberle brings the Habs’ PP to a respectable level, that is a gigantic win.
This is added to the point Olivier was making that Spacek playing is more concept than reality lately, as he is no longer durable.
Exactly.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
but the habs powerplay woes are, at least in some substantial part, terrible luck. hiring kaberle is going to look great on the same principle that firing a coach after a long streak of losses looks great: regression kicks in (i.e. the collective sv% of goalies the habs face returns to a normal level) and the move gets all the credit.
as to offloading the contract, sure, anything can conceivably be done, but if he continues to slide at evens it’s not going to be easy and will likely involve taking an equally bad contract/weak player the other way.
my argument is in no way that spacek is better or that his loss is a problem, my argument is that as a principle of general management taking huge, expensive contracts on crappy even-strength players is a bad bet, and justifying it because you can imagine ways it might not turn out to be a disaster just obscures the fact that it’s still a bad bet based on the available evidence. any move could conceivably turn out to be a ‘huge win’ if everything comes up roses, but i don’t think it’s advisable for the gm to take this sort of gamble based only on the hypothetical upsides.
i’m considering gauthier’s ‘have to do something to help morale’ justification and haven’t decided if i buy it yet, but even if i do, it just raises this thing to level of ‘difficult compromise move’ rather than ‘good move’.
Bad luck has been an issue, but so has puck movement from the blueline. None of the guys we’ve had on the point have been able to find the right side point in shooting position consistently aside from Plekanec, and he was having a ton of trouble holding the line, another huge strength Kaberle has.
Calling Kaberle a terrible ES player is a bit of a stretch as well. He’s not what he once was and is below par, but he’s better than Spacek and I don’t think many considered Spacek to be terrible.
What most people are missing is that Kaberle doesn’t even have to play well for this trade to be a win, he just has to play okay. We gave up nothing, his contract isn’t nearly as rich as people are pretending, and if we feel like trading him we don’t need to recoup assets to do it. Do you honestly believe that no cap floor team in the NHL would give up a 7th round pick for Kaberle? Even after Jovanovski signed a 4 year deal for similar cash? And his deal is a 35+ deal!
As it stands, all the negative sides of the deal are more imagined than real. You’re saying I’m speculating, but from everything I’ve looked at, even in Kaberle’s worst streak in his career, he’s been good enough to be an improvement on the Habs.
Assuming Kaberle continues to slide at ES on a better ES team is a far bigger assumption than him being able to do what he’s done his whole career. Remember that last year he was considered a steal at 4.25M/year, and fetched a 1st, conditional 2nd, and a top prospect in Colbourne. 30 games into a season is a small sample size to say he’s done.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 11, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
It also drives me nuts when people reference Gomez+Kaberle = 11M in dead salary, when in reality it is about half of that in dead salary.
Nik Antropov makes $4M per season, Gomez is overpaid by maybe $3M and Kaberle by $1M? It isn’t as impactful to say they are wasting $4M per season on those two players.
A lot of people, graduates of the Mark Recchi med school I presume, are adding Markov to that total as well…
This year is a hard one for Markov. Those setbacks are hurting the team but no one knew what was gonna happen with his knee.
The thing I hate to hear is that a 3 years contract is gonna be a huge mistake if it turns out he can’t play anymore. If we go into next season knowing he won’t play, they’ll sign someone else.
The worst thing would be for him to come back and play 10 games every year for those 3.
by Simon Lamarche on Dec 12, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
That last line would be colossally bad.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 12, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
It seemed to me a crazy idea to lock in for three years on a player with uncertain health and a history of injury at a vulnerable joint, but that’s just simple risk management.
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I don’t think anyone said people were insane, but the reaction has been ridiculous. The well is so poisoned right now that people don’t even look at the situation before freaking out.
As it stands, it looks like Kaberle is undoubtedly an upgrade on Spacek at ES, and that’s where he’s supposed to be weakest. Kaberle really helps in two areas, the PP and the transition game. It allows the team a second player who can find a guy coming out of the zone.
All negativity surrounding this move is based around an assumption that Kaberle will be here for the rest of his contract and that will hurt the team. It makes no sense to worry about something that’s 100% speculation.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I appreciate mitigated pessimism as it is a feeling I’m very familiar with, but I don’t think it’s warranted in this case. Kaberle contract is movable even under the current CBA and he doesn’t have to be Toronto good to be worth the money, he just has to be as productive as Spacek and not be a disaster on the PP. I like his chances.
by Hypnotoad on Dec 9, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
On another team, I might like his chances. This is the Habs, though. He’s going to get hurt 3 games in with an injury so bad he will envy the dead, and come back next year to play out his deal at a severely diminished level. Meanwhile, Spacek is going to play the rest of the season at a career-high level and single-handedly pull the Hurricanes deep into the playoffs.
I’m only half-joking, this team’s luck blows.
by despisethesun on Dec 9, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
If archeologists ever wonder where the inhabitants of Hochelaga buried their dead they may want to check under the Bell Centre.
by Hypnotoad on Dec 9, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahaha. That would still be better than being an Everton fan and end up in heaven. Which would certainly be impossible btw.
puts on my Everton jersey
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Actually yes. But I don’t follow soccer super-closely, and this year in particular I’ve had real trouble getting up early enough to watch games (I’m in MST.)
by despisethesun on Dec 9, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Good for what ails this team
This deal should improve the PP and that alone can be the difference this season.
Hopefully. And if the PP improves a great deal the narrative will be that Kaberle fixed it which might give him a little trade value.
by Roke on Dec 9, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wouldn’t that be nice?
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well they announced earlier today that he would be out until late January now.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Good reason to not inform the media how rehab is doing, avoid showing just how vulnerable you are.
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by Stephan Cooper on Dec 9, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I guess so. I have a bit of a feeling that they’re still being crazy conservative with his knee and Kaberle allows them to do so without stress.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Markov still is, at least in theory, an incredibly valuable asset that they shouldn`t risk.
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by Stephan Cooper on Dec 9, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
With the 3 year contract I’m happy they’re being as careful as possible.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
I thnk Stubbs said post All-Star break in his article tonight.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Dec 9, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Gauthier said late January, Martin said post all-star break. Who knows who’s being truthful. Gauthier actually gave a figure though, saying 9 weeks.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t Stubbs tweet that it was 3-4 weeks of healing, then a month of rehab, or something?
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I’m assuming that’s the first and last reason for this.
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Another article with little to no insight.
If nothing else, we know two things about this trade for the Habs: That Kaberle stinks and that 2014 can’t get here fast enough.
Everything I read focuses solely on the contract. The same people who wrote of Carey Price with the same certainty.
Do any of those people know that cap room is not an issue?
The only teams that lose players for money related reasons are those that are too poor to spend to the cap. Remember when the Blackhawks were going to fall apart? When the Flyers were going to collapse? There’s only so many players worth multi million deals and everyone has a floor to meet.
The idea that cap space is primordial is so deeply drilled into their heads that they can’t see anything else. It doesn’t seem to occur to anyone that cap space is only useful because it lets you acquire players. I am also not sure that the notion of the Habs as a rich team has quite sunk in yet.
And the Blackhawks “falling apart” still is the narrative — they “had to deal uber-important pieces like Byfuglien and Brouwer, after all, and ended up barely making the playoffs as a result”.
I know I made assumptions based on the NBA and how untradeable bad contracts were. The major difference is the size of a roster, the influence one player can have and the fact all the teams spend to the ceiling.
The fact that so many teams don’t spend to the cap is a major difference and makes dumping a contract way easier.
by Chris Boyle on Dec 10, 2011 9:31 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
All the same hacks are writing the same things. Maybe Kaberle will be a miserable failure here, but not ONE person on the negative side has given a single reason why that would be the case.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 9, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
I am a bit concerned about Kaberle’s ability at even-strength but it’s probably just me comparing him now to his peak.
When I was looking at him last summer he had a sharp drop in his matchups when Wilson took over as head coach. He went from a first-pairing tough-matchup guy (with his head above water, though barely) to an offensive-zone 2nd-pairing guy under Wilson’s coaching for 2008-09 and 2009-10 where he had an expected uptick in his possession metrics. In the split TOR/BOS 2010-11 season he had fewer starts in the offensive zone and he took a hit to about his 07-08 form but against 2nd-pairings instead of 1st.

*The rank for 2010-11 is on the Leafs because I decided to make an arbitrary decision.
This season (not included) looks ugly but hopefully a lot of that is the team, specifically the forwards.
Kaberle seems to have lost a step over the past few years which is the negative side to the deal. You can also throw in the contract risk (there is some risk there) as negative but like Hypnotoad said it hasn’t seemed to have been an issue for any club thus far. It’s not like the Gomez contract has been an albatross for the Habs either.
If Kaberle can help on the powerplay it’s a good acquisition for this season. If he can play competently in a neutral 2nd-pairing role and help the powerplay we’ll be smelling roses. I think the latter is a step too far though but we’ll see.
I’m not expecting him to be a top 4 guy. I think he’s clearly a bottom pairing guy at evens nowadays. No question he isn’t as good as he was in his prime. On positive, hit zone start/finish is better this year than in 09 or 10.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 10, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I’m a rookie at this stuff compared to you guys, but I sized up the QualComp between the two parties this season.
You guys can probably better expand on this Might be a bit out due to Spacek’s injury time. Kaberle’s 1.5 on 4 on 5 was 2nd highest for the Hurricanes.

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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Dec 10, 2011 12:19 AM EST reply actions
It’s pretty clear that Spacek was a sheltered a lot more than Kaberle was. I think that has more to do with JM being a better coach than Maurice than anything.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 10, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
You can’t really compare QualComp across teams, because of how it’s calculated. Basically, QC is going to be a function of the schedule and the lineups presented by teams on different nights. Within a team, you know that the schedule is the same, and can generally assume that the numbers are valid between players, unless they missed significant time/were traded during the year. Between teams, though, it’s damned near meaningless.
It’s usually a much safer bet to compare QC ranks than it is the raw decimal numbers.
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You can definitely compare Rel Corsi Qualcomp though.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 10, 2011 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
Can you? I’ve never really seen anyone try to. I can see why it’d be much more valid, especially over the course of a season, since everything would necessarily have to add up to zero, trade effects notwithstanding.
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Considering it’s a relative statistic, it was basically created for cross team comparisons imo. And I compared it in this article.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 10, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Good trade for both teams
Muller knows Spacek and will know how to deal with him / shelter him etc as well as Martin did. And they get rid of Kaberle’s contract. Montreal gets a younger much more useful defenseman. He has weaknesses, but as has been shown can be sheltered here. On the powerplay he will make a big difference. Last year the acquisition of Wisniewski looked brilliant in June and Wiz transferred it into a big contract. I suspect Kaberle will have the same sort of rejuvenation in Montreal and it will correspond with the rejuvenation of our powerplay, which will help the team at the same time. In June/July Gauthier’s big decision will be whether to let him go for a king’s ransom, or keep him because he has become a big part of the team. For what it’s worth, the “fans” who are now dissing the move will all be calling for the latter. From PG’s point of view, it will be a nice problem to have.
by khaleeji on Dec 10, 2011 3:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Excellent comment.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 10, 2011 5:24 AM EST up reply actions





















