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Around SBN: Bill Stewart Dead From Apparent Heart Attack

Time To Retool?

It's always a tough situation when your team isn't winning, but it's even tougher when you know the team was a legitimate contender when healthy. That's the situation we are dealing with right now in Montreal, and after 33 games it doesn't seem to be improving.

As the defense got healthier, Brian Gionta and Travis Moen went down. As it stands right now, the Canadiens are playing with a team below the salary floor, and have been for most of the season. They've lost more man-games to injury than any other team, and more salary has been in the pressbox or injured than any other team.

At a certain point, it becomes impossible to contend against an onslaught of injuries. As I said to Jay Baruchel earlier in the night, it's like trying to climb a mountain while wearing skis, sans poles.

The Canadiens are in a position very reminiscent of the Philadelphia Flyers in 2006-07. They're loaded with a lot of talented players, but certain organizational weaknesses (caused by poor decisions in Philly and injuries in Montreal) have lead to (so far) extremely disappointing seasons. Philadelphia made the smart decision to sell off assets like Peter Forsberg and take the high pick to come back stronger the next year. It netted them James Van Riemsdyk.

The Canadiens could do the same thing, but they're actually in a better position than the Flyers were.

Star-divide

Right now the Canadiens have quite a few expiring contracts, and with the CBA opening this summer, even if the team finds it impossible to trade Gomez, it's highly likely that there will be either a buyout amnesty period, or a one player for each team buyout amnesty (one time only) kind of thing.

Pierre Gauthier needs to take a hard look at his team and evaluate which players are core players. As it stands, he has a great chance to maximize value for several players. Not that I think Gauthier gives a crap what I think, but here's what I would tell him to do if he did:

Trade:

Andrei Kostitsyn is having a great year and he's about to be a UFA. The organization has shown that they want to keep him around and vice versa, in spite of constant media rumours, but the situation with him right now is too tantalizing to not take advantage. Kostitsyn is shooting at 20% right now and on pace for about 30 goals. He's big, hits, not very expensive and scores in the clutch. He's the ideal trade deadline pickup for any team. I don't think it's out of the question that he could bring a 1st round pick in return. Personally I would also go after Kostitsyn in the offseason, but that may be a dead end. Players that could replace Kostistyn should be available in the offseason, such as Ales Hemsky, Tuomo Ruutu, or Dustin Penner.

Travis Moen is a very good defensive forward and one of the best penalty killing wingers in the game. Another type of player that's always in high demand around deadline time. While he would never fetch what Kostitsyn would, he's also having a career shooting year at 25%. He's versatile and can handle top competition without looking bad, while chipping in clutch goals. He also has a Cup ring which doesn't hurt. Remember that values are inflated around deadline time, Gill grabbed a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder for Toronto a few years ago, Moen could possibly return the same.

Speaking of Hal Gill, this is probably his final season. He's bled for the team and I think giving him another chance to win it all would be good for him. He wouldn't net as much as he did when he was younger, but a 3rd round pick isn't out of the question either if he continues to shine on the PK.

Defensive depth is always at a premium going into the playoffs, and Chris Campoli can provide that. He's looked pretty slick for Montreal in the few games that he's been back (aside from his gaffe on the GWG tonight), and he's clearly not part of the long term plans in Montreal. It's not out of the question that a guy who can provide offense like Campoli could net a 2nd round pick. After all, he was traded for one last year.

Tomas Kaberle is probably difficult to trade again this season because of his two remaining years and many teams have spent to near their max already. However in the offseason $4.25M over just 2 years isn't hard to move if Kaberle continues to put up solid numbers with Montreal on the powerplay. There's also the question of Philadelphia this year, as they've lost Pronger for the season. Kaberle could never replace Pronger, but he would help them on the PP. Since Kaberle was acquired for essentially nothing (a 35+ contract for Spacek that was about to end), the Canadiens don't really need to worry about getting value for Kaberle. Essentially anything they get in a trade for him, even a 5th round pick, is a win because you get cap space the next two years as well.

If you can get anything at all for Mathieu Darche, it's worth a shot. He's easily replaceable. A 5th rounder for Darche would be more than fine.

Consider trading:

I really like Yannick Weber but the writing may be on the wall for him. In many ways he's been outperformed by Raphael Diaz, and the Habs have a glut of top end young defensemen who are either better than him now, or will be in a year or two. Even if Gill, Campoli and Kaberle get traded, and Markov stays injured, Weber still has to battle P.K. Subban, Josh Gorges, Alexei Emelin, Diaz, and whatever other veteran D the team decides to bring in. Not to mention that Nathan Beaulieu is progressing faster than originally thought. A few years down the road, Weber could also be in a battle with Jarred Tinordi, Morgan Ellis, Mac Bennett, Greg Pateryn, Darren Dietz or maybe even Brendan Nash or Frederic St- Denis. Basically the Canadiens have a ton of puck moving defensemen in the system, and he may just be redundant. Add to that, a young, talented puck mover with a right handed shot and a bullet from the point has a lot of value.

This one is a really long shot, but because of the number of small players on the team, and the fact that Gionta and Mike Cammalleri have more years and high dollars attached to them (hard to move), you have to consider moving David Desharnais. However even more than Weber, you don't make this trade unless you're getting a massive steal. Desharnais has obvious weaknesses, but he's producing points at a solid rate for 850K a year. Yes, he needs to be sheltered by Max Pacioretty and Erik Cole, but you're still getting some great production out of a low cost player. It would have to be close to the moon to move him before the deadline of next season, but worth listening to offers because of the specific makeup of the team.

Sign immediately

Carey Price, P.K. Subban, Josh Gorges and Lars Eller should be signed to long term contracts as soon as humanly possible. 3-5 years for each would be most desirable, although I'm guessing Eller will only get 2 because he's yet to break out offensively. These 4 guys, along with Pacioretty and Plekanec, are the core of the team's future.

Moving forward

Following this plan, as I understand the Habs draft pick situation, and assuming you get a 5th rounder for Kaberle either at the deadline or before the draft and retain Weber and Desharnais, the Habs head into the 2012 draft table with two 1st round picks, three 2nd round picks, two 3rd round picks, one 4th round pick, three 5th round picks, one 6th and one 7th round pick. That's a massive opportunity to either move for other players you want or add prospect depth. There's also the distinct possibility than Montreal could land within the draft lottery due to losing all these players.

Purely hypothetically, say the Canadiens draft Mikhail Grigorenko. That would put the Habs depth chart going into 2012-13 in this situation:

Left Wing Centre Right Wing
Max Pacioretty Tomas Plekanec Erik Cole
Mike Cammalleri Lars Eller Brian Gionta
[UFA] Mikhail Grigorenko Louis Leblanc
[UFA} David Desharnais Ryan White

Left Defense Right Defense
Andrei Markov P.K. Subban
Alexei Emelin Josh Gorges
[UFA] Raphael Diaz
Nathan Beaulieu? Yannick Weber

Clearly this is a glass half full of what could be available and what could be done, but I don't think many Habs fans would be disappointed with this going into the season. One solid UFA signing at forward like Tuomo Ruutu or Dustin Penner (who could be had at a discount after a terrible year) and this team is retooled and ready to contend.

Food for thought for frustrated fans.

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Too early to consider this. Despite the Habs’ poor record they are still within easy reach of a playoff spot due to the multitude of poor teams in the East. If the situation gets worse then it’s time to make moves and bring in some future assets. There’s still a lot of season left.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 12:40 AM EST reply actions  

I agree for the most part. What I’m talking about here is making a plan if things aren’t drastically turning around in January. By the deadline they should either be well within the playoffs or well out as far as I’m concerned. Not worth straddling just to hope and miss.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

They’re going on the road with a very shorthanded roster that may not be able to get the delicate matchup balance it needs to operate. They might surprise us, but that may also where the final nail gets driven. Especially if Cole is suspended, making Darche the #4 winger for a few games.

OTOH, I don’t think they can lose enough to land in the lottery. The goaltending is too good and they’d keep too much talent.

by MathMan on Dec 18, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

The threat of Cole being suspended right now is also what I’m thinking about. If Cole, Gionta, Gomez, Moen, Markov, and White are all out, it becomes almost impossible to match lines. Add in that Cammalleri and Plekanec are struggling, Desharnais is no longer sheltered as much… Not good.

As for losing enough to make it to the lottery, it could definitely happen if they deal off those guys and the injuries keep coming…

I could see them falling that far. Right now they’re 3 points out of 26th, which is lottery zone.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

The next two games are Boston and Chicago, and the third line looks to be Leblanc-Eller-Nokelainen. That’s going to be very ugly.

Frankly, I think this upcoming 6-game Christmas road trip will decide where the Habs will land.

by MathMan on Dec 18, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

They always get up for games against contenders, but this is one hell of a tough start for Cunneyworth as coach. If Cole is out virtually all of the scoring load falls to Pacioretty, and he’s been slightly off lately.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

If there is a plan being made for that I hope it’s not Gauthier who gets to execute it. Firing Martin was a terrible move and it doesn’t need to be compounded any further if things continue to go south.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Well it certainly wouldn’t fit with Gauthier’s modus operandi, but it probably would have been a better move to save his job long term than firing Martin was.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

At this point I think Gauthier’s long term job security is tied to making the playoffs and I expect him to do everything he can to get there. Even that might not be enough. If it gets to the point where they are clearly out of contention I expect him to be shown the door before any tidying up for next year gets done.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think he’ll get fired during the season. He may know that he’s done, but he won’t be fired outright. They’ll spend awhile looking for a replacement.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

At this point Molson should already be considering replacements. I would hate to have them decide Gauthier is done, but let him stick around to start the retool for next year. Let someone else set things up for themselves next year.

I believe this will all be moot though as I expect them to make the playoffs once they start getting healthy.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I think they’re going down before they go up, especially if Cole is out for a few games.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

They’ve been treading water for over a month now and I expect it to continue until they get healthy. They’ll hang around 2 – 4 points out of the playoffs without falling off completely.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

It gets more and more difficult unless players can get healthy.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

This upcoming week will be difficult, but getting 3 out of 6 points isn’t a huge stretch. After that it gets a bit easier with Ottawa, Tampa and Florida (who plays the night before).

If next week goes 0 for 6 then they will be in trouble, but I don’t see that happening.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Ottawa is so ridiculously lucky so I’m guessing we blow that game. We never do well on the xmas Florida stretch… Honestly I think our best chances for wins are Boston and Chicago because the team plays up to their competition.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Chicago also plays in Pittsburgh the night before so it’s a great trap game.

They are 3-1 in the last two years in Florida during the xmas, so it’s not as bad as it seems.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Good call on both. I’ll wait on a decision for Cole before I get too worried, but it doesn’t look good.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I expect a suspension because of how the hit looked, but Shanahan gave himself an out with the Malone decision and hopefully he takes it.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d rather have Gauthier see out the season and then make the change when there’s a wider group of candidates to choose from. With the exception of one blunder (S. Kostitsyn) Gauthier has done a nice job in the trade market. Tell him you want to retool like Philadelphia did, maybe put a handcuff on him, and then hope a great candidate becomes available after the playoffs when teams make changes.

Maybe San Jose disappoints in the playoffs, their upper management go insane, and Doug Wilson becomes available, or you get lucky and mange to lure someone like David Poile out of Nashville with big dollars and a bigger budget, or you roll the dice on a top lieutenant from one of the marquee franchises. I’m letting my head get into the clouds there though.

I do agree that if I were Molson I would be thinking about the replacements but the Martin firing shook my confidence in Gauthier a bit.

by Roke on Dec 18, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

The firing really soured me on Gauthier too. It seemed more like a sacrifice to the media (and maybe to save himself) than it did a well thought out hockey decision. Martin was getting about all you can expect out of the group of players he was able to ice. Maybe even a bit more.

There have been a lot of injuries and there’s nothing in Hamilton this year for Montreal to use.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

That said, I’m incredibly impressed with Leblanc so far.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes he looks much better than Palushaj, but he needs to work on his strength quite a bit. Nothing remarkable considering his age.

by JoeRubble on Dec 18, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Strength building was really held back by his shoulder surgery I’d say. I’m surprised he already looks like an NHLer.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Basically how I feel. After the Pearn firing, Kaberle trade and Martin firing, that’s 3 panic moves in 30 games. Even though the Kaberle trade was a solid panic move, I’m worried. The more I think about it the less trusting I am.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

They are not panic moves unless you consider every move a GM makes during the season a panic move. The Pearn firing was a warning to Martin and a way to get a replacement in place. The Kaberle acquisition was a means to bolster our blueline with the type of player we needed. And the Martin firing was a move to get the team going. As to the timing it seemed like a smart move to me. One game to get everyone introduced and then they go out of town for a long road-trip where they can work on the finer points and do some bonding away from the media. Also the players get some time with their family at Christmas and get to have some perspective on everything and come back ready to win.

by Silvertip on Dec 18, 2011 6:46 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

The Pearn firing was a strange move. The Habs were dominating possession, dominating games even, simple regression to the mean told us they would eventually start winning. Any move Gauthier made at that point would’ve looked like genius.

The Martin firing is inexplicable. The team, for all that it lost the most man-games to injury, wasn’t even doing poorly. The Philly loss was their first regulation loss in 7 games.

Unless Gauthier was essentially looking for excuses to fire Martin and Pearn and replace them with his hand-picked successor (Cunneyworth), neither move speaks very well of him.

by MathMan on Dec 18, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The Martin firing is similar to a number of coach firings over the last ten years. Fact of the matter is you have to win to keep your job in the NHL. There are always reasons why things don’t work out, but the fact that the Habs couldn’t hold a lead and weren’t competing the way they were expected to. It’s their record that got Martin fired, it was their lack of effort.

by Silvertip on Dec 18, 2011 7:54 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Actually, it’s pretty dissimilar:

Gauthier basically replaced Martin with the most similar person available. Really.

I mean, had he brought in Boudrault (god help us all) or Roy (that would be fun, if nt necessarily conclusive), sure it’s a firing as usual.

But here, it’s more of the same, except the guy is inexperienced and his not speaking french means the language thing will come back and it’s Gauthier who will be in the middle of it all.

I don’t get it.

by Olivier on Dec 18, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

In what world is Cunneyworth inexperienced? He has been an AHL head coach for two different teams and has 9 years of experience as head coach. And was an assistant coach for the Trashers for over a year. You must be thinking of Randy Ladouceur who is indeed short on experience…but not head coach in the NHL. Also Cunneyworth is NOT known as a defensive coach; he is more inclined to have aggressive forechecking and defensive responsibility. What the team needs isn’t a huge change it’s a unifying presence. Someone who can get everyone playing together and on system. The Randys are known to be good at developing young guys and getting guys to play with each other; just the thing after Martin’s my way or the highway attitude.

by Silvertip on Dec 18, 2011 9:46 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

You do realize that Cunneyworth was hired last year specifically because he was a disciple of Jacques Martin’s system, right?

Management wanted more cohesiveness between Hamilton and Montreal so call ups would have an easier transition.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 19, 2011 4:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Just because you are part of the same ‘school’ it doesn’t mean that you have the same way of coaching. Claude Julien is also part of that school, and coaches differently. From what I have seen of the Bulldogs playing under him, he pushes his players for a more hard-nosed game than Martin. I guess I have the rest of the season to be proven wrong, but I foresee Cunneyworth allowing more flexibility to the D, a tighter checking game and forechecking among the forwards; and giving those that perform more responsibility than those that don’t.

by Silvertip on Dec 19, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude. He was hired specifically so that the Dogs would play the exact same system. They were more ‘hardnosed’ because the AHL is a goon league.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 19, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

You may be right, and time will indeed tell, but I think that the differences we saw at the AHL level will translate to the NHL. Goons or no

by Silvertip on Dec 19, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Except that the Habs weren’t doing poorly even by that “winning” standard. Between the Pearn firing and the Martin firing, the Habs’ record was 12-7-5. That is a 99-point pace, achieved while leading the NHL in man-games lost to injury.

by MathMan on Dec 18, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t get me wrong, I think Martin is a great coach. But I think that he did lose the guys. It’s obvious to me that he had a few guys still on board and they carried the team. Fact is that you need more than 5 guys on a team pulling their weight to accomplish more than make the playoffs.

by Silvertip on Dec 18, 2011 10:31 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I don’t think that anyone had stopped playing for him. Who did you think had?

by MathMan on Dec 19, 2011 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Off the top of my head Cammy and Pleks are right there at the top. Even Gionta and Gorges admitted that guys weren’t buying into the system. Unless you think those guys are lying.

by Silvertip on Dec 19, 2011 1:45 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Every time a team plays poorly we get the same discussion. Losing the room is such a cliche.

Lindy Ruff loses the room all the time. He lost the room in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Then regained the trust of the room in 2006 and 2007. He lost it again in 2008 and 2009 and then regained it magically in 2010 and 2011.

Either that or it was talent level.

The Habs must be ridiculously talented if the coach can lose the room missing $20+ Million in salary and still remain competitive. Maybe the players didn’t try in the shootout because if they did Martin would still have a job.

by Chris Boyle on Dec 19, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If Cammy and Pleks stopped playing for the coach they had an odd way of showing it. They were producing at first-line rate at even-strength and were only having trouble on the PP (and even that was starting to turn around).

Unless Cammy was hitting posts on purpose, I guess…

by MathMan on Dec 19, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Cammy had a weird way of showing it…He just blew position assignments, purposely missed checks, and tried to do everything himself several shifts a game. With Martin’s system its not how well you do, its what you do that matters.

For Pleks, it was more trying to generate offense out of nothing. Instead of being patient and generating opportunities from the pass he would carry the puck and try to make something happen.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that both Cammy and Pleks have hockey sense and made good hockey moves. But that is not the same as following Martin’s system.

by Silvertip on Dec 19, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Can’t say I saw the same thing you saw.

They were struggling offensively, but getting punishingly tough minutes will do that for you. Now that Cunneyworth seems to be giving them more favorable minutes, I expect a lot of stories about how they were being stifled by Martin.

Unfortunately, if this happens it’ll be to the detriment of the MaxPac-DD-Cole line, who were given a lot more defensive faceoffs against New Jersey.

by MathMan on Dec 19, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting look as always Andrew. You planted the seed in the game thread and I’m beginning to think it might not be a bad idea. I do agree with MathMan, barring key injuries (Plekanec, Subban, maybe Price) the Habs probably have too much talent to be a lottery team. Maybe they finish 5th-last and get really lucky.

A couple quibbles. While injuries have been the biggest factor this season I think that a bad decision or two may have been made. Well, really I’m thinking of one (thanks to hindsight). The Gill signing hasn’t worked out at all since he lost a step and Subban isn’t able to carry him in the tough matchups. I mentioned it today, but I think the plan was Gill-Subban at least until December when Markov was expected back but Martin realized that wasn’t working early on and was forced to move away form it. Even with Markov in the lineup the Habs are probably missing a 2nd-pairing guy. There’s a lot of NHL quantity there (and God knows they’ve had to use it) but the Markov injury has really put the light to the lack of 2nd-pairing quality right now.

Also, barring a change to the way entry-level-contracts and unrestricted free agency I’m not a fan of putting an 18 year-old into the NHL if it can be avoided and especially if Desharnais is still on the roster. There is a Dane in New York who would be ideal for that role, but at this point it’s merely a fantasy with the Islanders being insane not to lock him up and the cost of him likely being more than the $2-2.5 million I’m hoping for (with the unrealistic, simplifying assumption that there are no changes to the CBA).

A 1 year-retool is starting to look attractive if you don’t mess up the core of the team doing it. There’s also the positive that you can be more cautious (if it’s possible) with Markov. Easing up on Price’s workload to drop points could help but you have to balance keeping him happy there as well.

In any case hopefully they lock Gorges up in the New Year. Whether retooling or trying to contend Gorges is probably the most important piece of business going forward… unless you screw up the Price or Subban contracts.

by Roke on Dec 18, 2011 1:41 AM EST reply actions  

I might be alone on this, but I’m not dissatisfied with Gill. He’s been his usual rock steady self on the PK and at ES he’s only slightly bellow par on Corsi but slightly above in Fenwick and shots % (tied). He’s also getting a little unlucky with the saves, only at .880.

I also look at the other option in Hamrlik, and he’s been useless for Washington, bad luck or not. And he would have been more expensive with a longer contract, so I’m still okay with that choice.

On the negative side, team Fenwick tied is was at 48.87 before tonight, which means it’s worse than that, and we’re behind Toronto.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I like Gill too (at one time I would have thought I’d never say that) but he won’t be resigned given we have options coming down the line and especially that the team absolutely must sign Gorges, a great team guy and warrior.

Honestly, it sickens my stomach to think about trading Kostitsyn — sure he’s a bit mercurial a la Kovalev but when the big knock about the Habs is their size, why would they go and trade away a guy who is big, physical, has a terrific shot, plays well with different centremen and is still young? We’d do well to keep him and lock him up. He’s also playing with a lot more emotion. this year. If we got a first rounder, sure that’d be tempting. But I doubt we would.

As I implied in previous replies, Cammelari is the guy that should be traded, probably with Weber at this point. Especially when we know we have a guy like Gallagher coming up…and if we could get a bag of pucks for Gomez, I’d pull on that one too. Darche has seemingly lost his edge now that he got some job security and isn’t bringing the same kind of energy he had last year. I like Campoli but he’s also expendable given his defensive liabilities at times.

As always, whatever happens, it’ll be entertaining!!!

by Habs Fan in LeafLand on Dec 18, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Gill has been our best PK d-man. I seriously doubt the Habs would move him, unless they are in a definite “miss the playoffs” scenario in February.

If they’er still on the cusp, then he will stay

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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Dec 18, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Good stuff

Interesting read, Andrew. Being of the “gut reaction” versus the “stats masters” crowd, I sometimes find such analysis to be more speculative than substantive. You’ve managed to stay within the bounds of realism and your views seem far more grounded than most of those who panic out there. I particularly like the medium view, moving reasonable assets for higher picks if the season doesn’t improve dramatically.

by punkster on Dec 18, 2011 12:40 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks, Dave. Realism is what I try for.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally I’m not in a bailout mode just yet, although the season has been very frustrating. You have to remeber the Penguins were 27–25–5 in mid February, 2009 and five points out of the playoffs. A coaching change, paired with a healthy team, made a huge difference and we know how their season ended.

Cunneyworth had just one pre-game skate and a game to figure his team out. This road trip will hopefully give him the chance to work with his players better. That was something he mentioned in the press conference,

Kaberle’s future with the team will solely depend on the return of Andre Markov and if the latter can return to his previous level of performance. Even if he does come back this season, it might be wise for JM to keep him on, in the event #79 has another setback.

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but don't forget...

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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Dec 18, 2011 12:59 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed completely on Kaberle. If Markov is done like a few people think, Kaberle wouldn’t be a bad replacement.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt Marokv is done. Wiz had the same surgery thrice and he still thrives.

My guess is the habs wished half a season from Markov and got two seasons for less than market value in exchange of commitment.

Anyhow, as Kevin said, a 5 game winning streak will do wonder. Only, I see a lineup with Blunden, Weber and either another D-Man or a callup, that’s 25 millions out of commission…

It will get worse before it gets better :P.

by Olivier on Dec 18, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I also doubt Markov is done, but he’s also significantly older than Wiz was when he went through those surgeries. If he comes back and plays 30 games this year and 70+ each of the next two years, they’re golden.

For sure a big winning streak changes everything. They’re still within striking distance which a lot of people don’t realize, but as you said, it gets worse before it’s better. The notion that Cole might be suspended is very worrying.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 18, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, Cole got away with it, the Campoli line in the sand, as idiotic as it may be, still exists.

So we may actually not get outscored by 10+ goals in the next 3 games.

by Olivier on Dec 18, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Good for the Habs, bad for the league.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 19, 2011 4:29 AM EST up reply actions  

That sir is a lot of change for a 1 yr retool… not sure I buy into all of what was said, though there is definitely the thought out there that Montreal is not done making moves yet. I just hope, as has been said several times, that the moves are more about getting the team to a point of resurrection rather than getting PG to a point of being saved. The calls for different coaches I think should quiet down after the road show. If the Two Randy’s can get through this on a positive note I think it will quell some of the naysayers, and maybe even turn some of them into believers. Even a poor move like bringing Tremblay in as coach had positive movement for a while (12 wins in a row… or something to that effect).

by Cruisin4aBruisin on Dec 18, 2011 8:33 PM EST reply actions  

It’s not really much change. Of all the players I listed that would be traded, only Moen and Kostitsyn have any possible future with this team.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 19, 2011 4:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Cunnyworth is there for this season only
They will hire Muller in off season
Trade Markov the minute he comes back move gomez if possible hopefully a contender will lose a centre near the deadline
Weber should go
Desharneis stays dont mess with the MED line they are the best line game in and game out I would take a team full of players with the heart of Desharneis
Get rid of Camarelli keep Gionta fill that line with a UFA
Trade Gill and Campoli at deadline if it looks bad for playoffs sign Sergi for one season if he performs keep him if not move next year

Untouchables Price, Subban,Cole, Kaberle(if pp improves) Desharneis, Plekanic, Gorges, and of course Max Eller for now should not be moved needs to improve and has to stop making dumb defensive errors

by HABFANATIC on Dec 18, 2011 9:42 PM EST reply actions  

correction

That should read and of course Max. Lars Eller for now should not be moved but needs to improve and has to stop making dumb defensive errors

by HABFANATIC on Dec 18, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

With a totally healthy team, I’ll buy the statement that Montreal can contend. But teams know injuries happen, so a team has to be built with some depth as well. It’s unlucky to get hit with injuries, but it isn’t unlucky to have a solid team even when you have injuries. Pittsburgh is still good for example. Signing Markov WHILE he is injured cannot be considered unlucky. Letting Souray go was also a strange one. Gomez was an obvious bad deal in hindsight and as a Bruins fan I can’t even bug you guys about that. Gomez never came close to living up to his end of the deal. Despite all this, and Montreal’s broken team, they never fail to challenge Boston to a gritty close game, and this mystery in life I will never quite understand…

by I Love Ska on Dec 19, 2011 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

Souray? You’re talking about 2007? Who gives a crap about Souray?

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 19, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Letting Souray go wasn’t strange. He was exactly like McCabe. He loaded up on powerplay points during the post lockout era when powerplays were way up. So the Canadiens would have been paying him at a rate that he has never matched again or before in his career.

Markov has been an elite defenseman for 6-7 years, the gamble is that he returns to that form and the injuries allowed the Habs to get him for less than his regular market rate when healthy.

by Chris Boyle on Dec 19, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Boston’s blueline is shallow and doesn’t handle speed well. The Habs have built speedy teams with forward depth. Meaning that they have guys who can take on Chara where he’s weak AND they can exploit the bottom of Boston’s lineup. (It’ll be much harder to do with the entire second line out, naturally).

Meanwhile the Bruins’ forwards rely on forecheck and physicality. Montreal has always been loaded with puck-movers. Basically, the Bruins try to forecheck and the puck is long gone.

Plus whatever voodoo the Bruins use to keep getting such high PDOs doesn’t seem to work on the Habs.

Montreal generally also just ignores the Bruins’ cheap antics, which may be a factor psychologically, I guess.

It’s why the Habs don’t have to do anything silly, like “build like the Bruins so as to beat them”.

by MathMan on Dec 19, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

On another note, so that you understand exactly how atypical the injury situation the Habs are in.

In terms of man-games,salary-games, and ice-time lost to injury, the Habs have had almost three times the injuries the Bruins have. This figure includes Savard as having missed every game since the beginning of the season. If you believe Savard is retired and take him out, my back-of-the-envelope calculation puts the Habs injuries as over five times those of the Bruins (and incidentally makes Boston one of the healthiest clubs in the league).

This is the Habs’ real problem, the one nobody seems to want to talk about.

by MathMan on Dec 19, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

bye jacques. flawed narrative?

this is the best discussion i’ve read about the axe falling on JM. makes me sad. i liked him and his mr. serious demeanor.

i am wondering about the statistically reasoned discussion amongst the clique members here. i read non-stop about player-hours lost to injury and salary on the shelf as the reason for the Hab’s under-performance – but perhaps this narrative is flawed?

first, about injuries: after three years in a row of non-stop injuries under Martin, I am wondering if it is luck, or systemic? have you had this discussion here? i might have missed it. i can’t help but think that the combo of particular players and the particular coaching system are somehow injury prone. this would lend credence to the smurf bashers, which i am reluctant to do, but 3 seasons is not so small a sample size and the trend has been alarmingly consistent.

second, salary on the shelf: you guys do a good job defending gomez, and he is no doubt better than most of his critics would have, but there is no arguing he is dramatically under-performing compared to his salary level. and it is his salary which has comprised a large % of the large $ figure on the shelf much of this season. sure, one could argue that generally that is a lot of salary to have out, as it might represent either a genuine star or two important pieces on another team, but on Habs it represents one moderately important piece. i doubt his absence is more important than AK’s or Gorges’ would be, for example. i realize we are still out the $4M that could be spent on a player if gomez was making about what he is worth. i just think it is a bit disingenuous to talk about the devastation of around $20M on the shelf when almost half of it is gomez.

i look forward to someone correcting me on my critique of this particular narrative.

by patience is a virtue on Dec 19, 2011 11:53 AM EST reply actions  

http://springingmalik.blogspot.com/2011/12/pain-game-201112-part-two.html

Let’s say we remove Gomez from that list. His CHIP contribution is 1,007M. Say it is half of that and he is making what he is worth. Then the number drops to 500K.

Montreal is number one on this list

Remove the 500K and the Habs are still at the same level as the Penguins and still $1.5M ahead of the third place team the Blue Jackets.

by Chris Boyle on Dec 19, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well, which is it?

So are the Habs a really good team that’s been competitive even though ravaged by the injuries to Markov, Gomez, Campoli and Ryan White …. OR are the Habs a team that will never compete for a Cup because of how they’ve been assembled, therefore management should consider another “blow up”, starting with trading anybody who’s non-core at the trade deadline (AK, Moen, Gill, Weber) … and possibly moving 1 of the smurfs who’ve done well in theh playoffs in years past (Cammy, Gionta)?

If it’s all about the injuries, then the team is fine and neither PG nor JM was responsible for inability to hold leads, low scoring output, pathetic PP, etc.

by Watty4ever on Dec 19, 2011 12:46 PM EST reply actions  

I would have stayed the course, but that is an outsiders perspective with no real knowledge of how Martin/Gauthier were interacting.

by Chris Boyle on Dec 19, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody’s talking about “blowing up” the team in this article. It’s all about “what happens if the Habs’ bad luck holds and they end up out of the playoffs”. The Habs can be sellers for one year and go right back to being competitive next year, following the Philly example of a few years back.

But yes, it is mostly the injuries, combined with astronomically bad puck luck on the PP (most teams, including the Habs, have better 5-on-5 shooting percentages than the Habs do 5-on-4).

by MathMan on Dec 19, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. People are drastically misinterpreting this article. To be honest I thought I made it very clear.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 19, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

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