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Lazy Draft Analysis at the Globe & Mail

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I don't know where the obsession has come from in recent years in comparing the Canadian hockey teams against each other, rather than against the whole league they belong to. There is no Canadian Championship, no award that goes with having the best hockey team in Canada. The Stanley Cup and the less revered Presidents Trophy (and even lesser revered Prince of Wales/Clarence Campbell Trophies) are what the teams have to play for, and they are league and conference based, not nationality based. I mean, we in Canada like our teams, and like to talk pucks, but there is no benefit to winning some fictitious competition amongst the now 7 Canadian teams.

I bring this up because because The Globe & Mail's hockey blog, the Globe on Hockey, seems to think that a comparison of the Canadian teams' total NHL games amongst draft picks from the arbitratry date of 2008 was relevant enough for a piece regarding the call-up of Louis Leblanc. The general idea behind it is that since the Canadiens exceptional draft year of 2007 (which they don't praise as such, but nevermind), the Canadiens haven't had a player make the NHL until Leblanc's call-up (and he may not even play, BTW). So, according to them, the Canadiens are obviously falling behind in terms of young talent to the other Canadian teams. Well, let's look at why this might be, shall we?

1. The Canadiens haven't sucked in this time frame.

In 2008, the year this story begins, the Canadiens finished 1st in the Eastern Conference. That year, only Calgary made the playoffs of the other Canadian teams, in 7th in the West. In 2009, the Canadiens squeaked into the playoffs in the 8th seed, while Vancouver and Calgary both made the post-season dance. In 2010, the Canadiens again squeaked into the 8th seed, while Ottawa finished in the #5 seed in the East, and Vancouver won the Northwest Division as the lone Western Canadian team. In 2011, the Canadiens made the playoffs again as the 6th seed, while Vancouver again was the only Western Canadian team.

In this four year time frame, Montreal was the only Canadian team to make the playoffs every season, and therefore had no picks in the top 14 of any Entry Draft. Three current Canadian franchises never made the playoffs at all (Toronto, Winnipeg/Atlanta, and Edmonton), while Ottawa made it only once. I don't think the Canadiens should apologize for trying to win the Stanley Cup, even if they didn't achieve that goal in that time frame. Only Vancouver has had more success than the Canadiens in this time frame: the Canucks are 5-3 in playoff series and won the Presidents Trophy and Clarence Campbell Trophy, while the Canadiens went 3-4 in playoff series without winning any hardware.

BTW, here's what this unauthored blog post (EDIT: Sean Gordon has since put his name up as the author) had to say about this fact:

True, the Habs have a veteran group and are usually a playoff team

No. Not usually. The Habs have always been a playoff team in this period of time you're referring to.

Star-divide

2. Most Players with NHL Experience Weren't Available when Habs Picked

While players who have made the NHL have been picked after the Canadiens have picked, since we're limiting our comparison to Canadian teams, let's have a look at these players they've selected that we've missed out on. Here's how the G&M puts it:

Over the same period, teams like Ottawa (with six), Toronto (two), Winnipeg (four), Vancouver (two), Calgary (four) and Edmonton (seven), have graduated draftees into the big club's lineup for at least a short look.

In 2008, the Canadiens first draft selection was down at 56th overall, where they picked Danny Kristo, currently in his junior season at the University of North Dakota (who this site voted our 7th best player under 25 this summer). Here are the players those other teams picked in 2008 that have played in the NHL:

Canadian Picks w/NHL Experience (2008)
Player Team Drafted Position GP Pts
Zach Bogosian Thrashers 3 D 222 67
Luke Schenn Maple Leafs 5 D 254 59
Cody Hodgson Canucks 10 C 31 13
Erik Karlsson Senators 15 D 158 92
Jordan Eberle Oilers 22 RW 93 67
Greg Nemisz Flames 25 RW 6 1
Yann Sauve Canucks 41 D 5 0
Patrick Wiercioch Senators 42 D 8 2
Lance Bouma Flames 78 C 16 1
Zack Smith Senators 79 C 94 24
Johan Motin Oilers 103 D 1 0
T.J. Brodie Flames 114 D 11 3
Teemu Hartikainen
Oilers 163 LW
12 5

The Canadiens pick in 2008's first round was supposed to be 25th, a nice cutoff point considering only one player since that point is currently a NHL regular and more than on a short-term call-up due to injuries: Zack Smith. The Canadiens picked Danny Kristo 56th overall, Steve Quailer 86th overall, Jason Missiaen 116th overall, Maxim Trunev 138th overall and Patrick Johnson 206th overall. It wasn't a great haul by any means, in fact, it was quite a weak one for Timmons. But Kristo is still a legitimate NHL prospect and at 56th overall, looks about as good as any of the guys picked around or after him. Though good on Ottawa for this draft, they did quite well, and the Oilers finding Eberle and a decent prospect in Hartikainen where they did was pretty darn good, too.

You should also note that 13 of the 25 players the Globe refers to were picked in 2008, when the Canadiens didn't have a first rounder or a sixth rounder. That's because its still rare to have players that are aged 21 to be in the NHL at all, and even rare for players aged less than that. So let's look at those players:

Canadian Picks w/NHL Experience (09-11)
Player Team Drafted Position GP Pts
Evander Kane Thrashers 4 ('09) LW 161 85
Nazem Kadri Maple Leafs 7 ('09) LW 33 13
Jared Cowen Senators 9 ('09) D 24 2
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson Oilers 10 ('09) LW 100 35
Tim Erixon Flames 23 ('09) D 9 0
Carl Klingberg Thrashers 34 ('09) LW 1 0
Anton Lander Oilers 40 ('09) C 23 2
Jeremy Morin Thrashers 45 ('09) LW 9 3
Robin Lehner Senators 46 ('09) G 9 0
Taylor Hall Oilers 1 ('10) LW 87 60
Alexander Burmistrov Thrashers 8 ('10) C 97 32
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins Oilers 1 ('11) C 24 25
Mika Zibanejad
Senators 6 ('11) C 9 1
Mark Scheifele
Jets 7 ('11) C 7 1

First off, thanks to doing this, I realize the Globe & Mail can't even count properly. It is 27 total draft picks by other Canadian teams, not 25. They missed two Thrashers/Jets picks in their count. Great research job. Anyways, Louis Leblanc at 18th overall in 2009 was the only player Montreal picked before any of the players on this list. And only Anton Lander seems to be sticking in the NHL, with Petteri Nokelainen-esque production. All of these players are still prospects, except the lottery guys that the other Canadian teams seem to love.

3. The Canadiens Do Have Young Talent

The cutoff for this article is arbitrary, and convenient. The Canadiens have four 2007 draft selections currently playing in the NHL, three of them on their NHL team. They also have two 2007 draft picks of the St. Louis Blues in Lars Eller and Aaron Palushaj. Hamilton is definitely depleted, but the prospects the Canadiens have acquired since 2009 have been pretty decent. The first six draft selections of 2009 all have NHL potential of varying degrees: Leblanc, Joonas Nattinen, Mac Bennett, Alexander Avtsin, Gabriel Dumont and Dustin Walsh are all either in the AHL already or will be soon. In 2010, the Canadiens selected a trio of players who are having strong junior seasons: Jarred Tinordi, Morgan Ellis, and Brendan Gallagher. And already from the 2011 draft the Canadiens have a pair of good to great juniors in Nathan Beaulieu and Darren Dietz, plus a solid Swedish pro in Magnus Nygren. Others have yet to distinguish themselves, but as teenagers, there is plenty of time and opportunity ahead.

This article is just another example of lazy analysis that is unfortunately commonplace in the hockey media. It took me about 90 minutes to put this together... it's not hard to find this info.

So kudos to Leblanc on his callup, and being the first of several players from the Canadiens 2008-11 drafts that will make the NHL (provided he actually plays). I look forward to a solid future from this group of players, but there's no need to rush.

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You’re missing a #4 here, I think: the Habs have enough depth that they don’t need to rush players. Perhaps it would have impressed Sean Gordon if the Habs had kept Beaulieu after training camp, and a shallower team might have, but Montreal is swimming in young D-men already and simply has no need to rush their prospects.

But I think the crappiest bit in the whole blog post is the underlying notion that draft picks made in 2008 (and later!) are expected to be playing in the NHL in 2011… and that this is a good thing.

It’s of course especially convenient that they placed the cut-off date right after Montreal had a fantastic haul and right before a year they didn’t even have a first rounder.

(BTW, the blog post is attributed to Sean Gordon — I guess it wasn’t when you originally posted.)

by MathMan on Nov 29, 2011 9:10 PM EST reply actions  

Detroit, for example, has had 3 players make the NHL in this time frame for a total of 11 games combined, strictly in an injury callup role like Leblanc is. And they have plenty of prospects with NHL potential in their system. That definitely is point 4, the lack of need to rush a player, but I was running long already on the first 3 points!

Added Gordon’s name, it was not on there originally though that’s who I assumed it was since he writes about the Habs on there.

Another point I didn’t make: The Canadiens drafted later than expected in 2010 because they made the Final 4. The picks jumped from what I believe was 15th in each round to 27th as a result of that playoff run.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Nov 29, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

One last point to add: only Karlsson and Hodgson of the players listed above have played in a playoff game.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Nov 29, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I count 11 years of ELC burned rather than let slide for players on the list (including this season):

2- Bogosian
1 -Schenn
1-Karlsson
2-Kane
2-Hall*
2-Burmistrov*
1-Nugent-Hopkins*

*Contract year being burned this season.

by Roke on Nov 29, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing with Karlsson/European players is they can play in the AHL, so it’s not quite the same as the junior kids in terms of burning a year. And if Karlsson had played 9 or less NHL games and the rest in the AHL, his contract would’ve slid and he could’ve had 3 more years on an ELC. That’s the situation with Avtsin and also what happened with Robert Mayer. As you can see on Capgeek, Avtsin is in his first ELC year even though he played all of last year in Hamilton.

That said, Ottawa played him that year and burned a year on his ELC, you are correct.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Nov 30, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Simmons a week or so back, and now Gordon.

MSM writing has basically come to this:

“The reason the Habs are no in first place is because 11 other teams have better records than they do. Consequently three other teams in their division are amongst that group, making it very hard for the Habs to get a playoff spot.”

Kevin van Steendelaar

http://www.twitter.com/kvansteendelaar

but don't forget...

http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP

by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 29, 2011 9:33 PM EST reply actions  

Hurricanes

The 29th ranked PP, going into tonight’s game, went 0 for 5 under their new coach.

Well, so much for Muller being the key to the Habs power play success while he was in Montreal!

Kevin van Steendelaar

http://www.twitter.com/kvansteendelaar

but don't forget...

http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP

by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 29, 2011 9:35 PM EST reply actions  

Did Sean Gordon just hack into your account?

Montreal Canadiens///Toronto Blue Jays///Baltimore Ravens

by rsty on Nov 30, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i’m just going to scream and tear my hair now. it is that frustrating.

by ephie on Nov 29, 2011 10:16 PM EST reply actions  

1st thing Muller has to do is get that Leaf PP QB-reject off his PP. He had a great assist for a Goal Against his team tonite on an attrocious clearing attempt around the boards. I’m sure he’ll get a hockey stick enema courstesy of Muller at practice next.

Mr. Hunter’s debut didn’t work out much better…..the Russkies stiffed for him too…….

"It's only through change we learn to grow".

by Canadian Jet on Nov 30, 2011 1:57 AM EST reply actions  

I heard Pierre McGuire on the radio telling everybody how the Leafs are a great team because of up and coming players like Colbourne and Frattin, all the while spewing that the Habs got nothing for Halak.

I take most of this with a grain of salt. The fact that he cut off at 2008 is the whole story.

Imagine if I described the 1988 Montreal Canadiens and talked about the lack of young prospects and only totally ignored the 1984 class of Roy, Richer, Corson and Svoboda, all players on the 1988 team and wondered why the 1985-88 draft of players like John Leclair, Mathieu Schneider, Patrice Brisebois, Ed Ronan, Brent Gilchrist, Donald Dufresne, Tom Chorske, Benoit Brunet, Jyrki Lumme, Lyle Odelein and Andrew Cassels had yet to make an impact.

Instead of taking a positive and saying, wow, the Habs have 4 impact players on their roster under the age of 23 and stud prospects like John Leclair, Eric Desjardins, Mathieu Schneider, Patrice Brisebois who could all have long careers as well as a ton of depth players who will play in the NHL for a decade an article could be written about how NONE of those players had played a game in the NHL yet and therefore the Habs have a weak minor league system.

I know somebody came on here and took offense to the usage of “narrative”, but how can we not use a word like that when Gordon has created an artificial reference point to create a story. The whole article looks absurd when you look at Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Weber and Eller on the current roster.

by Chris Boyle on Nov 30, 2011 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

Especially since his MO is having young, cheap contracts on the roster contributing significant roles. Well, Subban and Eller are still in their ELC’s (as is Palushaj), and Pacioretty is on a pretty cheap deal for a guy on a 30+ goal pace. Based on the goaltending market, Price is on a pretty reasonable deal. Not to mention cheap contracts for 25 year old’s like Desharnais, Diaz, and Emelin contributing quality minutes.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Nov 30, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

The fact that McGuire drools over players like Colbourne and Frattin while hating on Eller tells you everything you need to know. Frattin has only had one strong year as an adult, and went undrafted. If Frattin is in the equation at all, the first thing that should be said by McGuire when comparing the teams is that David Desharnais is significantly better.

Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 30, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I am amazed that he has a spot on Montreal radio in which they value his opinion.

by Chris Boyle on Nov 30, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Why are you surprised? He’s bitter at the Montreal front office and does nothing but slag them. That makes him perfect for the target audience. :D

by MathMan on Nov 30, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ve actually heard mcguire be more complementary towards Eller of late, admitting that he could score a bunch of goals in the nhl one day and that he wasn’t a dud. To his credit.

Montreal Canadiens///Toronto Blue Jays///Baltimore Ravens

by rsty on Nov 30, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry but I do think the Habs coud’ve gotten more for Halak at the time. Eller I see as a solid 3rd line center, and Shultz will never make the NHL.

Halak was the hottest goalie in the league when the deal was made.

PuckBandits
www.puckbandits.com

by PBsizzle on Nov 30, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

fixed

Halak was the hottest [unsigned RFA looking for big cash based on a sample size of about 15 games where he played well] in the league when the deal was made.

Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 30, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Goaltending isn’t worth a lot on the trade market or the open market for that matter, look at Vokoun. Plus nobody thought his hot streak was representative of his true talent level.

by Hypnotoad on Nov 30, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

And by the end of the playoffs he was a high but not out of this world .924. His spectacular play wasn’t a constant thing even at his height.

The GM community (outside Philidelphia) seems to have become pretty rational about goaltending value.

by Stephan Cooper on Nov 30, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Outside of Philadelphia and Colorado. Don’t forget Colorado.

by MathMan on Nov 30, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

That trade looked bad and it’s looking worse as we see Colorado in the bottom 5 and not really looking like close to climbing the rankings…

by Simon Lamarche on Nov 30, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The irony here is that the Avs are an okay possession club, they’re getting pasted on the percentages — and Varlamov’s .899 overall save percentage is a significant factor in that.

by MathMan on Nov 30, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s the thing, they’re “okay”. Some of us are starting to think it’s no sure thing that the Habs are gonna climb back up the rankings.

Imagine if the Habs were posting those possession numbers, would you be very optimistic for the season?

by Simon Lamarche on Nov 30, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, lemme put it this way: the Habs are already posting much better possession numbers than the Avs, even with all their injuries and despite the recent skid, and I’m starting to have serious doubts as it is.

by MathMan on Dec 1, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m with you on this!

Even with the possession numbers they’re showing, I’m expecting them to be sellers at the trade deadline, which is why I’m still expecting the Avs to be a bottom-10 (maybe bottom-5) team at the end of the season. Maybe not a lottery pick but imagine if the Caps could pick someone like Sean Couturier (pick #8, right?) at the next draft…

I’m strating to think bad trades are only funny if they’re made to advantage a Western team. I just don’t want to see the Bruins or Leafs screw the Blue Jackets at this point.

by Simon Lamarche on Dec 1, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

All this and not to mention the Canadiens success outside the draft — Diaz and Desharnais on the current roster.

These pickups relevant because it meant the Habs gave themselves the option of not using players they either felt weren’t ready or weren’t ever going to be ready.

The whole notion that a team must be built through the draft is a bit of an old romance. It works for some teams that get high picks, but really it’s scouting that matters. How the players actually come to be on the roster matters much less. Detroit doesn’t get caught up in the fact that their first rounders from the past 20-odd years look like a lesser group to many many teams’, nor should they..

But is there not a grain of truth to what Gordon says as well? It is increasing ly a league where young talent (particularly forwards) can thrive. The Candiens have tended to pick longer-term projects with their higher picks, almost as if to eschew the need to test a young player. Who knows, maybe Emerson Etem or Quinton Howden would be on the wing instead of Darche had we picked them. Or perhaps, someone picked instead of future degree holder Danny Kristo might have been able to progress if taken into the Canadiens own system.

by Topham on Nov 30, 2011 10:44 AM EST reply actions  

There’s truth in all your paragraphs here for sure. Only Leblanc really is a pick that the Canadiens can expect to be near the NHL level based on how they drafted (NCAA players in 2008 and 2009, a lot of d-men in 2010 & 2011).

But there aren’t a lot of good young players playing on playoff level teams outside of those picked before the Habs made their picks. There are some out there, but they are few and far between. Maybe the Canadiens should have traded up to get these types of players, rather than trading up to get a Tinordi, but I don’t think it’s a fundamental, organizational weakness.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Nov 30, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Not only were they a playoff team for all those 4 years, they had the 25+ draft position twice.

by Stephan Cooper on Nov 30, 2011 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Erik-Cole-paid-for-Louis-Leblanc-8217-s-parents?urn=nhl-wp18757

Exactly what I said in regards to Mike Boone’s fake stats. MSM picks up stories and report them as fact without bothering to do research.

Leblanc’s special day was also a special day for the Canadiens’ scouts, who have not looked particularly good since the 2007 draft. Leblanc is the first Canadiens’ draft pick in three years to play for the big club. From the Globe & Mail:

Yow. One assumes Erik Cole won’t get many more opportunities to be so generous.

by Chris Boyle on Dec 1, 2011 9:28 PM EST reply actions  

Really disappointing to see from Harrison. Pass it to Bulis is a great blog.

Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.

For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Dec 2, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Pass it to Bulis (the guy not the blog) seems really good, but every single thing I’ve read of Harrison Mooney’s is gutter trash. He tries to be Down Goes Brown but he isn’t funny.

Co-editor of Eyes on the Prize
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/andrewberkshire

by Andrew Berkshire on Dec 3, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

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