Can We Stop With The False Equivalence?
From Bruins fans to idiotic media personalities looking for attention, there's a lot of criticism of Max Pacioretty as well as Habs fans this morning.
It should be expected that any time anything remotely controversial happens, Damien Cox has climbed atop his pedestal to troll fans and then complain about the responses. Here's a rule you should live by on twitter, if you say something stupid, expect stupid responses. Cox is a serial abuser of the format, constantly inflaming and challenging fans to fight, then blocking them at the slightest hint of disagreement.
Because of course, Damien, the hits were SO similar. This kind of simplistic, stupid analysis is exactly what's wrong with media today. Cox displays he has absolutely no understanding of this situation or the one surrounding the Zdeno Chara hit of last year. And after getting shredded by a great many people smarter than himself, Cox fell back on the usual crap of the intellectually inefficient, "it was a joke, LOL". Sure, Cox. That's why you're still beating the drum right now.
Along with Cox you have the normally intelligent and reasonable Jimmy Murphy from ESPN:
Hypocrite? Do we really need to tread over the Chara hit again? Do we really need to beat that corpse for media types with an agenda to show how wrong they are? Here are the obvious and simplistic differences between the two hits than any dunce with half a brain should recognize immediately:
- Pacioretty was making a play to separate Pittsburgh Penguin Kris Letang from the puck.
- Making a hit during that play was not illegal.
- Pacioretty immediately looked back after the hit and looked disengaged from the play.
- Pacioretty struck Letang in the head and will most likely be suspended in spite of having a clean record.
- Pacioretty and Letang have no prior history.
- There were no attempts by Pacioretty to injure Letang at any previous point in the game.
- After Letang scored the winning "goal", Pacioretty immediately approached him to apologize, something which Letang pointed out after the game.
Conversely:
- Chara did not make a play to separate a player from the puck.
- Making a hit during that play was illegal and Chara received an interference penalty for it. By definition, that makes his hit NOT a hockey play.
- Chara did no look back after the hit, which is usually the case with intent.
- Chara was not suspended or fined.
- Chara had attempted to injure Max Pacioretty several times during the game, as well as the previous game, including a Bobby Clarke style two hand slash across Pacioretty's ankle that sent him to the dressing room.
- After the game, Chara ducked out of the Bell Centre and met with Bruins media only. He blamed Pacioretty for the hit, saying he "jumped" into the stanchion. He expressed limited remorse for the result, none for the play itself.
Anyone who thinks these two hits have anything in common is in dream land.
Another issue I'd like to address is bias, which I'll do after the jump.
Montreal Canadiens fans have a reputation for being blindly biased. Sometimes that reputation is deserved, but really no more than the fans of any other franchise. Yet we still have idiocy like this:
It is especially rich to hear Bruins fans saying the word hypocrite, or accusing Habs fans of being biased. Just a small example of the things HABS fans have been saying about the Pacioretty hit today:
Where exactly is the bias? These are Habs fans calling for the best forward on the team to get no mercy, despite the team being riddled with injuries. Sounds like the most reasonable fans you could ever want. (You should probably follow them on twitter).
Does anyone remember how Bruins fans reacted after the Pacioretty hit? Or more recently the Milan Lucic hit on Ryan Miller? Hell, Lucic lead the way on that one saying he thought it was funny. Bruins fans focused on how much they hate Pacioretty and Miller, saying neither play was suspendable. Of course the Bruins are immune to supplemental discipline in this league so they wound up being right.
Still you have Bruins fans, and far less forgivable, Bruins media, extolling the various reasons why Pacioretty deserved to get his neck broken. Whether it was Joe Haggerty altering Chara's quotes to make him look more innocent (when he's not busy calling fans of other teams gay slurs), or Jimmy Murphy today, Or Kevin Paul DuPont every couple days, they're constantly beating the drum of players who get hurt by the Bruins deserving it.
There were two main sentiments after the hit last night among Habs fans; hoping Letang was okay, and saying that hit was bad. How many other franchises can say the same?
Somehow I doubt Pacioretty will be getting a gladiatorial standing ovation for injuring Kris Letang. I also doubt that Letang will be booed in Montreal for getting hurt.
And they call us biased because a few idiots abused a phone line.
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Did Chara make any immediate apology? Hmmmm methinks not
Kevin van Steendelaar
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 27, 2011 1:58 PM EST reply actions
Like I said, he blamed Pacioretty for the hit, saying he jumped into the boards. There’s no way the two hits are comparable.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I remember him saying he didn’t know who was on the ice at one point. Another thing to make one smile: some of the Bruins stood up and cheered when the hit was shown on the screen at the Bell Centre (I was there at the game). Horton was the first one up cheering. A guy almost gets crippled and he stands up to cheer.
by DarthAlexander on Nov 27, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
yah…but payback was a bitch for Horton in the Cup finals….
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
by Canadian Jet on Nov 28, 2011 4:07 AM EST up reply actions
Haggerty and Murphy are two of the most undereducated bloggers out there. And yes I said bloggers. Their level of writing is nowhere near MSM levels (then again few “MSMers” are."
Yet oddly enough, these are the go to guys for TSN990
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 27, 2011 2:04 PM EST reply actions
Honestly I find the level of writing on a lot of blogs superior to MSM.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Just reading Murphy’s follow up tweets. He quickly tries too save his ass, stating he would say the same about Bergeron or Savard if they did that.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 27, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
If he was saying that Max should be suspended I would agree, but he’d never call a Bruin a hypocrite.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I stopped following Damo after the Patches incident because he was trolling then just as he appears to be trolling now. I messaged him with something like this: “I am unfollowing you because I have come to the conclusion that you’re nothing more than a highly paid troll.” This came about after reading continued nonsensical tweets like, “Where was Geoff Molson when …?”
Of course, he had to message me back twice trying to be smart. If I had replied to the second message, we’d probably still be going at it.
I suggest that other sane people should also unfollow him. Life is too short. In fact, I shouldn’t really have wasted my time typing this. :) But I thought others might like this info.
Absolutely. The only reason I followed him was to keep up on why Leafs fans were making fun of him on whatever specific day.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Cox is one of these guys who can write a brilliant piece, then goes right out and shoots himself in the foot on Twitter.
He can be a pest on Twitter as well, but like most blog comments, just don’t feed the troll.
Then there’s Steve Simmons and his self proclaimed top-rated Sunday column, who writes pure crap and tweets the same.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 27, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions
He’s very similar to Jack Todd. He CAN write well, but most of his stuff is simplistic crap that belongs in a tabloid.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Well somebody has to ask the question, right?
I stopped reading Cox (and listening to Prime Time Sports) when he wrote his snowjob on Jose Bautista. If somebody’s going to be that intellectually lazy they’re not worth my time.
Agreed.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
I said 4-6 games, although that’s probably high.
Also, I agree with your assessment of Damien Cox. I don’t follow him on Twitter anymore because he drove me crazy.
He’s a professional jackass. I can’t see Pacioretty getting 4-6 games, but I can see the logic for it if someone isn’t cow-towing to general managers like Shanahan has begun to do.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
So this poll is for if we think he should be suspended and the other one is if he will be suspended. OK. :)
Yes, he should be suspended. I think a first offence headshot without a major injury should be suspendable, and the 1-3 game range seems to fit. I’d probably go for 3 games if I was in charge, maybe 2 as it was at least on a puck carrier.
If he had concussed him, I would’ve gone a game or two higher. Yes, severity of injury is a concern. Broken noses aren’t severe at all, as Letang proved by continuing to play.
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Very similar to my thought process. My guess is that he gets 1 game or nothing, just because NHL discipline is very impotent.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Reading Wyshinski’s blog, he certainly seems to think Pacioretty was targeting the head.
To me it looks like hes actually trying to twist his body away from Letang, but the latter’s momentum on the upswing carries him into him.
Patches has 2 inches in height on Letang, which also needs to be considered.
Letang falling face first into his visor likely had more to do with a broken nose than the initial contact.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 27, 2011 2:27 PM EST reply actions
Letang saying his head was down is also a bit of a factor.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say Wysh said he was targeting the head, he ruled it similar to how I did, I thought. He also concedes that Pacioretty got a bit of shoulder on the hit, but the principle contact point (whatever that truly means) was the head. I think he got both head and shoulder simultaneously, one didn’t affect the other.
As for this Pacioretty should no better crap, give me a break. He was taught to hit the same as everyone else of his generation and Chara’s generation. Anyone who thinks a power forward like Pacioretty isn’t going to make a few bad hits is just being convenient. Headshots are going to happen, but they must be avoided and dealth with properly.
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by Bruce Peter on Nov 27, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thing is, Letang turns as a result of his shooting motion, as indeed he must. Before this motion, Pacioretty was going to end up hitting Letang’s shoulders as they were parallel to the blue line; the shooting motion made them perpendicular, exposing Letang’s head to become the principle point of contact.
The question is whether this happened late enough in the hit that Pacioretty had no chance to adjust his trajectory. The fact that there’s some shoulder-to-shoulder contact would also be taken into consideration, I imagine.
At least, these are things that might be looked at if one assumes the nature of the hit has any bearing on the sentence, which I am quite unconvinced of especially given that a star player is involved. I also do not believe the head was willfully targeted, so this would fall under the “reckless” provision.
In an ideal world, the NHL would ban and suspend all head hits, including this one; as it is, the rulebook seems to have less bearing than the status of the players involved, so…
This is exactly how I believe Shanny will address it. The motion of Max towards Letang only changes due to Letang shooting the puck, which, quite frankly is simultaneous…IMEHO… had Letang not shot, he would not have dipped below Max’s shoulder line. Max, subsequently could not have stopped in his motion.
If Max gets anything I would be surprised by anything more than 2 games.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Nov 27, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
I find a lot of this stuff to be a collosal drag. It’s both depressing and aggrivating to read…not this article but stuff like this in general. I enjoy having a good debate and talking about issues but I find the media now and chat rooms and talkbacks to be a breeding ground of stupidity and ignorance. All teams have their share of yahoos and unfortunately thanks to today’s modern technology we get to see and hear and read about them.
What amazes me as well is that a lot of people will refuse to see what is right and wrong even if it’s all laid out in front of them. I don’t know if it’s because they refuse to see it or refuse to believe it. Not just Bruins fans but all teams.
I know it sucks to admit someone on your team may have done something rotten but I’d prefer if they’d man up to it rather than have them or someone else sugarcoat it and turn it around.
The sad thing is no matter how sensible and fact-based you can make things there will always been someone who will refuse to believe it because there is “no way” someone on their team could have done something rotten.
Someone tweeted last night that Chara should have ended Pacioretty’s career. What a class act. (It was since deleted).
Wow, who tweeted that?
And also I agree that it’s much better to man up and call it the right way. Just like when your team deserves to lose, it’s best to be big about it and admit it.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
“TheActiveStick” mentioned it in a tweet with “lawyergirl” last night. She had seen it and mentioned it but didn’t take a screencap of it. The guy who wrote it deleted it off his Twitter account.
by DarthAlexander on Nov 27, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it was anyone “famous” but just some moron on Twitter.
by DarthAlexander on Nov 27, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I remember seeing Laura comment about people deleting offensive/classless tweets, but missed the actual tweet. God people are annoying.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Totally off topic,
but Letang was everywhere Saturday. He even shattered Price’s stick with a shot. Apparently HNIC tried to say it had to do with Crosby, who wasn’t even on the ice.
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 27, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions
Letang was awesome last night, no question.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
HNIC was so busy kissing Crosby’s ass last night that you’d think the Penguins were the Canadian team and we were the American one. Nice job Hockey Night In CANADA.
I know Crosby’s the golden boy but god give me a break. Some homerism would have been a nice change.
If only Crosby were a Bruin or a Leaf. Then we’d really get it.
by DarthAlexander on Nov 27, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
I won’t be surprised if the “No” option breaks 50%. But I wouldn’t be surprised of that result on any team’s fan site.
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If the player was on that team, is what I mean.
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I’m hoping it doesn’t but I posted it on HIO so it could.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know. I think he should be suspended for the hit to the head, but the NHL’s resolve to eliminate those hits from the game didn’t even made it to the end of preseason. That means any suspension won’t be because of a league policy, but a spin of the wheel of justice.
If I was running the league, I would suspend him, but with the current discipline regime he should probably get nothing.
Pretty much. It’s a joke right now.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
The wheel of justice hinges on the word intent. As long as that is the hinge, then Shanahan always has an out.
EVERY TIME they do not want to suspend somebody, we hear the word intent. It is a red herring that allows them to pull the chute whenever they want.
In a situation like last night, I doubt we here the word intent used because Pacioretty already apologized and Letang has already accepted it.
As for Cox, he wants you to mention him in an article, he is an attention seeker and has zero credibility or consistency outside of his attempts to incite, so the best way to deal with his stupidity is silence.
The fact that the league tries to emit a reputation free of internal influence is absurd, because of that I fully expect minimum two games with some non-sensical explanation that contradicts one of their previous judgements.
Agreed. But I am still hoping it goes in Patches favour. Between the apparent lack of intent, lack of injury, prior history and Letang’s positioning I am hoping for 1 game.
by hab a good time on Nov 27, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Pacioretty apologizing to Letang is probably reason enough for them to say there was intent. To avoid a suspension he would have been better off saying Letang jumped into the hit instead of apologizing.
I don’t know about that. I apologize for things I didn’t intend to do. Not the things I did intentionally.
by hab a good time on Nov 27, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
According to precedent, unfortunately you’re right.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t paint all Bruins fans with the same brush but I admit in the last year it’ s been hard not too. Some of them you just want to take and dunk their heads in the nearest toilet.
by DarthAlexander on Nov 27, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
There will be no suspension. This is similair to the Campoli hit. It was a hockey play. Letang had posession of the puck. Letang had his head down. Pacioretty showed no intent to target Letang’s head. The play was moving quickly at the time and Pacioretty had no time to plan his hit. There was no previous incident between the players. Pacioretty apoligized and showed remorse after the play.
Instead of this incident, the hockey world should be discussing how inept refereeing cost a team two points.
by Ashok11 on Nov 27, 2011 7:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Technically
It was only one possible point.
by hab a good time on Nov 28, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
So Brian Wilde went on Twitter, feeling that Murphy’s “hypocrite” tweet seemed unlike him. Engels then backed him up. WTF is with these guys?
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by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 27, 2011 8:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Harder to call out friends.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 27, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Head shot, yes, I’d figure there will be suspension.
There’s been no open season on the goalies since Lucic/Miller-gate and it was hardly a direct hit to Miller’s head. Yeah, Lucic hit him and didn’t get out of the way. Hit him square behind the shoulders.
I’d gather it will be similar to Paille’s suspension.
"Just a small example of the things HABS fans have been saying "
Very small example, way to cherry pick as all you have to do is go to TSN or the Globe n Mail to see the fury. Hab fans are posting comments about the Bruins organization and their fans as if they were involved in the game. The writer of this article should take a cue from Puck Daddy on how to blog.
The writer of this comment should learn how to read, and take a glance on the two polls on this website that both show over 60% of Habs fans thought Pacioretty should be suspended.
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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 30, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions






















