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What's Going On?

The Canadiens are bleeding goals this year at an alarming rate, or at least in the last two games. While Carey Price has hardly been much help, it's pretty obvious the defense has a few holes in it so far. But who has really been struggling, and who looks worse than they've actually been?

This early in the season it's very hard to evaluate players because four games is a pretty irrelevant sample size. However I believe it is worthwhile to look into some advanced stats just to challenge common perceptions. For the purposes of this exercise I'll be leaving out Chris Campoli and Jaroslav Spacek because a) they're not playing, and b) they didn't play enough to learn anything from their stats.

All statistics are from Gabe Desjardins' behindthenet.ca

Star-divide

P.K. Subban

Four games into the year and already fans are screaming "sophomore slump". Even reasonable fans. But is it warranted? Has Subban been that bad? Right away when you look at Subban's quality of competition it's evident how difficult his job is. With a score of .481 he's facing competition nearly twice as tough as the next defenseman on the team, as Gill scores .278.

Against that competition Subban has still managed the highest Corsi score among all Habs defensemen at 24.77 and the highest relative Corsi at 24.8. To illustrate how effective Subban is at carrying the play, the Canadiens' Corsi score while Subban is on the bench is zero. You read that right, while Subban isn't playing, the Habs produce the same amount of shots as their competition. While he IS playing, they dominate. Not exactly the numbers of a sophomore slump.

Where Subban is struggling however, is his zone start/finish scores. He's started 60.5% of his shifts in the offensive zone, but ended only 45.7% in the offensive zone. That's a startling reversal of play last year than had him start more often in the defensive zone and finish in the offensive zone. However every defenseman on the Canadiens as an offensive zone start percentage of at least 50% which might tell us that the Habs are spending far less time in their defensive zone overall than they did last year.

Where Subban is getting victimized so far this year this year seems to have a lot more to do with luck than anything else. While he's on the ice the team is massively out-shooting the opposition, but he's still getting outscored. While part of this is due to a few brain farts on Subban's part, giving up high quality scoring chances while trying to dangle, a large part of the blame also lies with Carey Price, who just hasn't been very good so far. Price's save percentage while Subban is on the ice is just .864. When you combine that with the bad luck Subban has experienced offensively, reflected by a team shooting percentage of 5.56, it looks like a big ball of bad luck. To put these numbers into perspective, Subban also had the worst on ice save percentage of all the Habs defensemen last year, but it was .911, nearly 5 percentage points higher than this year. The combination of team shooting percentage and on ice save percentage gives us a measure called PDO. Over a season a player's PDO usually edges close to 1000, which is basically breaking even. Last year for example, Subban has the team's lowest PDO with 977, while Spacek had the highest at 1005. Subban's PDO this year (919) will undoubtedly move closer to the mean of 1000 as the sample size gets larger. It's extremely unlikely that Subban continues to experience bad luck to this extent on both ends for an extended period, so I wouldn't be worried about him.

Josh Gorges

Luckily for Habs fans, Subban's bad luck has been partially negated by Gorges being an absolute stud on the back end. I was a little worried coming into the season that he might not be the same rugged Gorges we've all come to love, but he's the same guy, only a better skater and showing some offensive tools he previously hasn't used. While Gill plays with Subban on the first pairing, Gorges is left to carry the second pairing, mostly with Diaz so far this year. Gorges was the Habs' top defenseman during the preseason, and so far this season he's performed better than anyone else as well. His quality of competition is a little low for him at .048, but it's important to remember how a small sample can play with the results. I doubt Subban's Qualcomp will remain that much higher than the rest of the team as the season goes on for example.

Gorges has managed a positive Corsi rating, third best among Habs defenders at 6.44, however his relative Corsi to the rest of the team is -3.6. The reason for this largely being the extent to which Subban carries the offensive play. Gorges has put up a good Corsi number, but the team is still out-shooting the competition at a higher rate when he's on the bench because of Subban. This would be why context is so important in statistics.

Where Gorges is most dominant happens to be where Subban has been weakest. Gorges has started 51.4% of his shifts in the offensive zone, and finished 56% of his shifts in the offensive zone. That tells you how effectively he's been moving the puck out of Montreal's zone and pushing play towards the opponent. This is probably the reason that Gorges has been getting the most even strength ice time of all Canadiens defenders.

Gorges has also been the beneficiary of some good luck. The team's shooting percentage while he's on the ice is a staggering 15.38%, while he's received average goaltending (well, average for Carey Price) with Price putting up a .923 save percentage while Gorges is playing. While the save percentage Price is giving Gorges is clearly sustainable considering it was his average last season, the on ice shooting percentage is not. Gorges' PDO so far is 1077, which we should expect to regress. The Habs aren't the 1980's Oilers unfortunately, so that scoring will eventually even out throughout the lineup.

Hal Gill

A lot of people have been on Gill this young season. I'll admit that I'm one of them, but I don't blame Gill one bit. The problem is that he's being asked to do far too much. It's clear that the team wanted to keep the Gill - Subban pairing from last year in tact because it was so effective, but Gill is another year older and usually struggles a bit to start the season. Personally I think it's time to split them up and give Gill a slightly easier job. He's simply not cut out for another full season of the kind of competition we need Subban to face, simply a .278 Qualcomp score for Gill is too high, even with injuries. We need to put him in a position where he can succeed.

In spite of taking most of his shifts with Subban, Gill's Corsi numbers aren't that impressive. He sits fourth on the Habs blueline at 5.54, while his relative Corsi is -4.5. This isn't really surprising considering Hal Gill's job isn't to bring the offense, but to shut down the opposing team, but playing with Subban should yield more impressive results.

Similar to Subban, Gill has been started in the offensive zone more often than last year at 57.6%, and finished in the offensive zone far less than is desirable at just 46.2%.

Gill has suffered the same bad luck that Subban has with team shooting percentage and save percentage while he's on the ice, just not to the same extent. Gill has received a save percentage from Price of just .875, while the team has converted on just 7.41% of their shots. Gill's PDO comes out to 949.

Alexei Emelin

When looking at the stats I expected Emelin to come out looking better than guys like Diaz and Weber, but I was surprised to see that he doesn't just look better, he looks damn good. Shockingly Emelin has been trusted enough by Jacques Martin to have the third highest quality of competition among defensemen at .105. It's especially significant considering his D partner, Weber is in the negatives at -.067.

Even more impressive is Emelin's Corsi stats, as he ranks second among the defensemen in raw Corsi at 15.61, as well as relative Corsi at 14.3. Emelin is the only defenseman on the team who's relative Corsi isn't pushed into the negatives by Subban's ridiculous numbers.

Emelin joins Josh Gorges as the only two defensemen who's offensive zone start/finish score doesn't end up negative. Emelin starts and ends his shifts in the offensive zone at the exact same rate of 55.6% of the time.

Surprisingly even though Emelin has the second most impressive numbers of all the Habs defensemen, he's had some horrendous luck. Even worse than Subban's actually. The team's shooting percentage while Emelin is on the ice is a paltry 4.76%. Meanwhile he's getting killed by Price putting up a horrendous save percentage of just .846! Emelin ends up with the worst PDO of all the Habs defensemen. Expect this number to get closer to 1000 very quickly, provided Price improves.

Another surprise from Emelin so far is his discipline. The biggest fear coming into the season was that he was going to regularly get caught out of position going for big hits, or get penalized for doing something stupid. So far it seems he's really bought in to Martin's system. Add to that that he's drawn 3.9 penalties per 60 minutes of ice time and his future is incredibly encouraging. I think Emelin is ready to be tested a bit with further responsibility.

Yannick Weber

Weber is an interesting case. Of the defensemen currently in the lineup, he's clearly sheltered more than the rest. He also clearly has less trust from Martin than the other 5, deservedly or not. As you can see from Chris Boucher's analysis today, Weber is probably our worst option on the penalty kill as well. However, he's not nearly as sheltered as he was last season thus far, with a Qualcomp score of -.067 in comparison to last year's -.103.

Unsurprisingly, Weber ranks fifth among Habs defenders in Corsi scores. While he's out there we're still out-shooting the competition with his 4.64 rating, but as with most players he's relative Corsi gets pushed into the negatives at -5.7. None of this is surprising for a 3rd pairing defenseman thus far, however out-shooting the competition consistently is a good sign.

Perhaps one reason why Weber is looking so good is because of all Habs defensemen currently playing he's been starting in the offensive zone most often at 61.3% of his shifts. That doesn't tell the whole story however because he's not bleeding out in the zone finishing department, still managing to end his shift in the offensive zone 57.6% of the time.

Here's where we get back into that luck thing again. While Weber is on the ice, the team shooting percentage is a ridiculous 15.38%. Unsustainable but impressive. Even more unsustainable is that Weber hasn't been on the ice for a goal against at even strength, giving him an on ice save percentage of 1.000. Those crazy numbers put his PDO at 1154. Weber is off to a hot start, and it might be a good idea to play him a bit more until he cools off and his luck runs out.

Raphael Diaz

Diaz is a pretty smart player. He's savvy enough to compensate for his lack of size, even though he's not as physically strong as the similarly small Weber. But I believe he's being played out of his depth. Diaz is still being sheltered a bit with a -.015 Qualcomp rating, but I have a feeling that is slightly affected by the first game against Toronto when he wasn't being asked to play on the second pairing with Gorges.

Among the Habs defensemen, Diaz is the only one with a negative Corsi score. What makes this even more troubling is that it's not just a mild negative, it's pretty severe. His score is a terrible -16.20. Even worse than that, considering the rest of the team handily out-shoots the opposition while he's on the bench, his relative Corsi is -37.2, which is the 14th worst relative Corsi in the entire NHL, ninth worst among players who've played three or more games. Of course part of this is an adjustment period to the smaller rink and a faster game, but Diaz could use some sheltering.

Maybe a bit of an excuse for Diaz's Corsi numbers lie in the fact that of all the Habs defensemen he's started in the offensive zone the least at just 50% of his shifts. Unsurprisingly however, he still ends his shifts in the offensive zone less often than any other defenseman.

Luckily for him, his horrible numbers have been negated so far by some luck. The Canadiens have managed a solid 9.09 shooting percentage while Diaz is on the ice, and Price has put up an excellent .939 save percentage over that time, putting Diaz's PDO at 1030. This obscures the fact that Diaz is really treading water so far in the NHL. I'm not saying he won't be a good player or doesn't show promise, just that he could use a slower adjustment period. He certainly shouldn't be playing 19 minutes per game.

Moving Forward

So what can be done to stabilize the defense a bit while this adjustment period takes place for all these inexperienced players? I think we saw a little bit of the plan happen in overtime last night as Martin juggled the pairings a little bit. For the short term, I would say the most likely way for the Habs to experience success defensively is for Martin to deploy the following pairings at even strength:

  • Emelin - Subban
  • Gorges - Weber
  • Gill - Diaz

These pairings keep an experienced player on with each young player, put our two strongest even strength Corsi guys against the opponent's top lines, they give Gorges a player who's currently playing hot, and they allow Gill to play against weaker competition at even strength while Diaz adjusts to the North American game. At this point trying to give Emelin some extra responsibility is low risk and high reward. If he can't handle it you revert to your previous pairings, if he can, you've discovered you have another top 4 defenseman earlier than you thought you would.

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Last game I seen pk in to deep and attempt to dive for puck on other teams blueline so what did u think happened the other team got a breakaway and good chance to score! Come on Subban we know u can do it…play like u did ur rookie seasons!

by Todd1981 on Oct 16, 2011 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I think a big reason why Subban is trying to do too much is because Gill isn’t good enough to play with him. Give Subban a partner who can compliment him and I’m betting he looks a hell of a lot better. He’s trying to overcompensate for Gill’s deficiencies.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hamrlik with Washington

QualComp .689 – Rel Corsi: 1.3 – PDO 986

PG was a fool to let him go!!!! What a buffoon!!!

Kevin van Steendelaar

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but don't forget...

http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP

by Kevin van Steendelaar on Oct 16, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very odd that Carlson and Alzner were the big shut down pairing for Washington last year and now they’re been sheltered.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Subban was 4 to 2 on scoring chances last night. Unfortunately his failures have been more spectacular than his successes so far but he’s still driving play in the right direction.

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 16, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The failures are standing out more because of shoddy goaltending more than anything IMO. Last year Price lets in 2, maybe 3 goals last night.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only goal I put on Price was the first one last night and in the Flames game he had bad luck on the play where he raised his skate.

All the other goals are great shots or plays in an area with high success rates when a player has time and space.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 16, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Couldn’t disagree more. Price was clearly awful on the goal you noted, but also on both of Jones’ goals where he lost track of the puck and didn’t challenge on one and flailed on the other. Yes Jones’ power play goal was a perfect shot, but 9/10 times Price challenges there and gloves it.

The other goal that really bothered my was the tying goal at 5-5. Again Price completely lost track of where the puck was and staying down and deep in his net, thinking the puck was still behind the net when it was out at the faceoff circle and promptly in the back of the net.

His effort on Hejduk’s shootout attempt left a lot to be desired as well, moving first for pretty much no reason and giving Hejduk a wide open short side. He’s looked uncomfortable both of the last 2 games and I’m hoping he gets over it quickly.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is NO chance that Price makes that save on the Quincey goal. I don’t know what your expectation of him is, but when you try to take away the bottom of the net with the butterfly and you are hugging the post how are you supposed to alter the depth from your knees?

I don’t know if you have ever had to make those decisions but when the puck comes out from behind the net at that pace, there is no way to alter your depth even with his ridiculous skill set. Maybe you can create the argument that he chose the wrong save selection and if he had played the VH setup that he would have been able to push outwards, but that goal is not on him. That is on Gill’s ridiculous decision to sprawl and remove himself from the play and four defenders collapsing down way to low allowing Quincey a free look.

You are kind of defending Subban while ignoring the expectation factor and then using your expectation factor to blame him for things that few goalies in the league could have done anything about.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 16, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not ignoring the expectations on Subban, I’m pointing out that he’s not struggling as much as it looks like. The last two games I can’t say the same about Price.

Yes I think Price regularly would have gone into a VHS as the Avalanche player went behind the net, but my problem isn’t even that he got beaten, but that he didn’t know where the puck was.

My expectations for Subban are high, but my expectations for Price are astronomical. I honestly think he’s the best goaltender in the NHL right now and will be over the next 12 years or so. But a couple bad games are a couple bad games. Even he admitted he needs to be a lot better.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

PK admitted he played like crap, so take that with a grain of salt. Price seems to be a pretty standup guy, I also think he has ridiculous expectations of himself. Mobility wise he is able to do things 95% of the league only dreamed of being able to do.

I was at the game, so I didn’t go over all the goals. As a goaltender, when a defense springs leaks that allow guys unimpeded access to a goaltender, I have a hard time laying it on the goalie. He likely saves their bacon 90% of the time if that game is played 100 times, the opportunity was there on the first goal alone for him to win that game for them, but watching that live and seeing things breakdown before they broke down, I wasn’t disappointed in his play at all.

I don’t know if he is the best goaltender in the NHL yet, but he will be when he is 25/26. Physically he is, he also has the strongest skill set of any goalie in the league, but he still makes the wrong save selection more often than somebody like Ryan Miller. I am not a Thomas fan, but Thomas is smart and has figured out ways to compensate for his ridiculous rebound rate and poor lateral movement.

He doesn’t seem to trust his defense to cover wandering forwards and when that happens it can confuse your decision making.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 16, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Subban and Price are both good at saying the right things. Because he’s older and more mature, I believe it a bit more from Price at this point. Like you said, he’s a standup guy.

It sounds like his only real problems are based on a defense core making poor decisions more than his own decision making.

I’m expecting a big bounce back game from Price, and probably a poor offensive performance from the rest of the team against Buffalo. His career numbers against Buffalo are pretty crazy: .937 sv% and 1.96 GAA.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

The key right now is for the Habs not to defeat themselves. This team can carry the play quite well but needs to execute their tactics much better in the defensive and offensive zones. They shouldn’t fear any team in this league if they get their act together even with a banged up defense.

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 16, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed 100%, all three games they lost they’ve beaten themselves more than anything.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

True Chris, but Price isn’t 5’9" like some of us, he’s a tall keeper that gives him advantages with covering high.

Something I look at with positioning for any keeper is whether they “stand on their knees” or “sit on their calves” and as I was 3 sheets last night after watching college football failures, I didn’t see what Price was doing. You can alter your depth if your technique is good. Was he slumping down or was he making himself tall? I remember (though foggily, thank you Talisker) that he gave up 2 high last night, and earlier this year but till this conversation, I hadn’t noticed either way.

Price said he had stuff to work on in the preseason, maybe he just hasn’t hit his stride and his technique will straighten out with some work.

by blockersave93 on Oct 16, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said to Andrew, when you are at the game you don’t get 6-7 replays, I could see the goals developing with the poor spacing before they happened. When guys like Jones and Quincey started popping into those spaces with time and the result ended up in the back of the net, I have a hard time putting it on the goalie. Especially in the moment.

Watching the replays you can see his technique/positioning/decision making is off on a couple of the goals. I have looked at the tying goal and I still can’t criticize him.

He follows the play properly all the way to the far post and the pass happens so quickly that his initial recognition is to concern himself with a wraparound. The puck left from behind the net so quickly that you can see his head turned facing the shooter as he is still sliding to the post, he tries to recover but the puck is essentially already by him.

It is easy to say what he should have done, but anybody who has played goal understands at that point that Price has to concern himself with in order:
1. Shot from bad angle or pass out in front.
2. Possible jam play as the pass out in front is removed from the sprawling Gill
3. Jam play or pass out front. As Gill slides into the corner it has become a five on three.
4. He centers himself, but at this point he has to worry about a wraparound on both sides or a pass out front.
5. Wraparound on far post or pass out front.

All of that happens within 3 seconds. The puck is in the net by the time GIll gets back in the play. If Gill had not committed himself he cuts off half the options by closing out the glove hand side, Moen is in front of the net taking out Jones leaving Jones double covered with Hejduk and Quincey rolling free.

Seeing that live the first thing that pops in my mind when Gill sprawled was "uh oh" because that opens up a lot of time and space for the Avs. I just can’t see how Price plays that any differently with that many options available to the Avs with the man advantage.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 17, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Subban’s scoring chances were 4 to 2 for the good last night against the toughest competition. The main problem with Subban is that his successes have yet to be as spectacular as his failures.

Also the power play has been bad and that’s where he makes the biggest offensive impact.

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 16, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Four games mean nothing. PK gathered his game last season, I expect he will do the same this season.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 16, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think microstats through 4 games can prove or disprove if Subban is playing well. Also, I don’t know how you can equate bad luck to some of his decisions.

That play with Stastny broke a cardinal rule. You don’t try to deke a guy like that when you are the last man back. Sure he could have gotten lucky if Price stopped it, but then we are analyzing the result and not the stupid decision that created a clear cut breakaway from center ice. He has made plenty of those type of bonehead decisions, decisions that were fairly regular in his game until he was benched last season.

Using corsi, relative corsi etc is irrelevant IMO for this small a sample size. On that shift if he had fired a shot that was blocked and then blasted one wide and set up another point shot that was easily directed in the corner by Varlamov then turns the puck over for that breakaway goal corsi will list PK as a +2.

The problem with PK is not that he is awful or that he is playing terrible, but he is not playing like he was over the second half when he was a dominant Norris type defenseman. If he did that last season we would all shrug it off because he was a rookie and trying to tame a wild stallion will result in mistakes. The problem is about ALL of us expecting the PK we saw dominate the Boston series, the one who is the best shutdown guy and the best offensive defenseman on the ice.

When he doesn’t deliver that, it is disappointing and when you make the pinches and risky uncontrolled plays he has over 4 games it is impossible not to notice.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 16, 2011 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Subban is clearly trying to do to much, but I don’t think he’s playing poorly. I think he’s overcompensating for having a partner who can’t keep up with him.

As for the relevance of the stats, I pointed out that they’re small sample sizes several times throughout the piece.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he has played two poor games and that it is evident he is trying to do to much. I just wouldn’t use corsi at this point because it cannot really paint a realistic picture based on the lack of even strength time at evens. Last night that game was rarely tied and neither was the Calgary/Toronto/Winnipeg game.

So those stats can be influenced by the score. The Calgary game was the Habs firing plenty of pucks while trailing badly for 40 minutes. That one game can corrupt all the data when it makes up 25% of the sample.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 16, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that the stats aren’t 100% reliable, but when relative to the rest of the team his numbers are so incredibly high, I think that’s very relevant to his play.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s also Chris Boucher’s analysis which still puts Subban in the elite category. He’s regularly putting up the highest grade and highest risk/reward of all our defensemen.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of..

Here’s Chris’ breakdown for Saturday

http://www.boucherscouting.com/2011/10/vs-colorado-6-5-shootout-loss-october.html

Kevin van Steendelaar

http://www.twitter.com/kvansteendelaar

but don't forget...

http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP

by Kevin van Steendelaar on Oct 16, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I already linked it in the piece as well.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

He needs to simplify his game. Those are mistakes he wasn’t making last season while still doing all the other things.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 16, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is what I think to, needs to rein it in a bit. The skill set that makes him great is obviously still there and shows in how he drives play overall but he’s often been guilty of chasing after “a bridge to far.”

I’m thinking Markov’s imminent return may do a lot to relieve him of the pressure to do too much. Latest word seems to be to expect him by game 9-11 or so (Oct 26-29 against the Flyers and Bruins twice).

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 16, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The qualcomp stats tend to be a bit wonky in the early going due to sampling issues though.

In addition to the possession and territorial dominance Montreal’s displayed so far (8.2 shot per game advantage, and a big offensive faceoff dominance) they are also 7th in the league in 5 on 5 play (1.50) despite some sub-par goaltending. They really just need to re-establish their traditional special teams and goaltending strength and this team can win some games.

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 16, 2011 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed, and I noted that the small sample makes this less effective a few times.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 16, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but qualcomp is really, really, really problematic this early, because it relies on success thus far to determine who is the toughest competition. this early, though, the players who’ve been most successful could be anybody- nugent-hopkins is by far the most effective oiler to date, so he looks like the ‘toughest competition’ on the roster, but he ain’t, and part of his effectiveness is (possibly) that people know he ain’t and haven’t been defending him as zealously. our dear pk’s qualcomp looks so tough in part because of goals that people have been getting off of him, which at this point are a much larger portion of goals overall than they will be once the sample size evens out.

point being, it’s not reasonable to use qualcomp yet no matter how many disclaimers you use, and with so few games you don’t really need the shorthand to do the analysis. just look at time on ice and check out the competition literal-like.

sorry to be so nitpicky, it’s an excellent post otherwise, very comprehensive.

by ephie on Oct 17, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

No worries man, legit criticism is ALWAYS welcome.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 17, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

For those interested, scoring chance information over 4 games for defensemen on 5 on 5.

Subban:
For: 15, Against: 11.
Ratio: 58%

Gill:
For: 13, Against: 13.
Ratio: 50%

Gorges:
For: 20 Against: 21.
Ratio: 49%

Yemelin:
For: 12, Against: 13.
Ratio: 48%

Weber:
For: 14, Against: 16.
Ratio: 47%

Diaz:
For: 16, Against: 20.
Ratio: 44%

I think this reflects how Gill is being carried by Subban and Diaz playing above his competence on the 2nd pairing.

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 16, 2011 11:37 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This is all about small sample. Hall of Fame defensemen make the mistake PK made Saturday night, but if you spread his mistakes out over 82 games nobody cares, bunch them up and they are impossible to ignore and shine a spotlight on them.

I think we all know that he is their best defenseman and they are better off with him on the ice, the problem is the sample size and our expectations. Add those two together and they form a bullseye.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 17, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seems we are getting Gorges/Subban, Gill/Diaz and Emelin/Weber as defensive pairings for the next game.

Against Colorado, Subban/Gill played Hejduk/Duchesne/Lindstrom (allegedly Col’s 1st line), Emelin/Weber went up against Stastny’s and Gorges/Diaz played Winnik/O’Reilly/Landeskog.

Don’t look now, but depending on matchups against Buffalo, we may have Emelin/Weber creeping slowly in front of Gill/Diaz on the matchup chart.

I’m probably getting ahead of myself, tough. This may simply be a case of 26/76 playing a tonne of time, 74/68 taking a lot of O’Zone draws and 75/61 taking DZone draws against the bottom of the lineup.

Still, Count Chocula certainly isn’t standing idle when it comes to combinations…

by Olivier on Oct 17, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never understand the criticisms of JM not adjusting during a game. He’s constantly adjusting.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 17, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even better

He’s not adjusting during a game and he’s playing around with his lines too much!

by Simon Lamarche on Oct 17, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think its possible to be a coach in Montreal and not be constantly criticized from one direction or another or both simultaneously. Best you could hope for is to be in the centre of opinion and condemned from the fringes.

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 17, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

He does more than just jot things down on a notebook.

Relatedly, am I the only one that loves that notebook? He’s not relying on fallible memory, he records his observations systematically for future reference.

by Stephan Cooper on Oct 17, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Absolutely. I love that old school approach.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 17, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, that’s pretty progressive. Once they make an iPad/Kindle/Whatever small and reliable enough to usurp The Notebook™, we’ll all be forced to ackowledge this.

More seriously, +1 for recognizing this, Stephan.

by Olivier on Oct 18, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

weber

Against calgary he was +2 and played 21 mins.A pee wee can skate faster than Gill and IMO the new D guys haven’t been the problem. Cary was average.

by hoofer on Oct 17, 2011 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

.....I don't get it

I think stats are just stats, you can tell by just watching the game, who’s playing well, who isn’t, which pairings are working, and which ones aren’t. To me, it looks apparent that Gill and Subban just ain’t working well at all. Though it doesn’t help that Montreal doesn’t have a lot of depth at the moment with Hamrlik and Wisniewski leaving and Markov, Spacek, and Campoli on the hospital beds.

I think Gorges and Gill should switch up places, place Gill with Diaz and Gorges with Subban. And with Bryan McCabe on the market, I don’t think it would hurt to sign him to a veteran contract as god knows when Markov and Spacek will be back.

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by KBUnitz on Oct 17, 2011 6:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Stats are just a way to quantify observations made during watching games, which can be biased when, for example, one is focused on a particular player rather than the whole team. Like how Kostitsyn receives undue criticism based on people who nit-pick only his game.

That said, stats can be biased too; it’s early and we only have a small sample size to work with, which may affect qual-comp, though I’m not sure. Commendable analysis though Andrew.

Montreal Canadiens///Toronto Blue Jays///Baltimore Ravens

by rsty on Oct 17, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

It requires both. Statistics at this point in time are based on the information made available, if something valuable is not available then it leaves a hole in the statistical analysis.

That being said, how can one not use zone starts to paint a clearer picture of how a coach is using a player. Something that will not be picked up upon with the naked eye with as much accuracy.

Watch the game and use the microstats to clarify the picture. That’s how I use them.

by Chris Boyle on Oct 18, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Watch the game and use the microstats to clarify the picture. That’s how I use them."

+1

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 18, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely small sample size. Thanks for your comments. All I was really trying to do was challenge perception a bit and see where guys would work best on D.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 18, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

much obliged.

Is there a link you can refer me to for descriptions of how these stats are recorded?

Montreal Canadiens///Toronto Blue Jays///Baltimore Ravens

by rsty on Oct 18, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure how they’re recorded by Desjardins to be honest. I’m guessing that he uses an algorithm using the real time statistics from NHL.com. That’s my guess because he’s still an employed engineer and entering that much information for 30 NHL teams seems like a huge job.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 18, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

My bad, I didn’t see the link to his site. Yea I thought he scored it himself, that’d be very time-consuming. As far as how he gets ‘em, it’s all greek to me, I might take a little dip into his database though.

Montreal Canadiens///Toronto Blue Jays///Baltimore Ravens

by rsty on Oct 18, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely check it out, it’s amazing how much information is there.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Oct 18, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. No matter the opportunities and explanations about those-whether there’s reasons for the ops to go south or not be there, the product is a win, a goal, a post, a shot, a powerplay… what have you. If these things don’t happen, then what are our guys doing?

We’ve seen some poor games already this season, and we’re likely to see some more, but, blogs on stats get a bit tedious (ala defending Gomez despite his worst goals/assists/points season in his career). The season is long enough that observation alone can depict what’s happening on the ice without a moment to moment deciphering.

As for what should happen, I think they’ve spent enough and let enough go through free agency, its time to give the kids a chance and motivate from within. Adding pieces this early in the season goes to demote a prospect, and further decrease their confidence. A forward coming in creates lesser complications IMHO, as there are 12 spots (not that I suggest getting someone) , but with the D likely being 6 some nights, 7 on others, sending Yemelin or Diaz or Weber down to fit in a new guy just doesn’t sit as easy.

\The movement in lines is, well unfortunate. AK being on top line seemed (career wise) to be where he feels most confident. Moving from 1 to2 to 3 doesn’t sit well, he appears awkward. Patch on the other hand appeared to take his switch to play with Desharnais fairly well. I guess its a perception thing for the players. Plays with your mind being put with different people every other night. I hope things settle down for AK as he’s potentially a 30 goal scorer, and it would be a shame to lose him next off season.

by Cruisin4aBruisin on Oct 18, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

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