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Should Molson be Concerned with the Number of Flying Un-frenchmen in Montreal?

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Interesting question on CKAC radio recently in light of the signing of Max Lapierre to a one year deal.

As Lapierre and Mathieu Darche are the lone two remaining french Canadians from Quebec (Benoit Pouliot being  Alfred, Ontario born), do you think there should be a mandate from Geoff Molson to GM Pierre Gauthier to increase the Quebec born player content on the club?

Contrarily, would you think it best that Molson simply instruct Gauthier to build the strongest club regardless of nationality?

For myself, I've always kind of fence sat on this one. Yes francophone content is awesone, but never at the cost of the betterment of the team in whole.

Some may suggest, and I'll agree to a point, that on occasion, bring in a francophone does make the player better in Montreal. However, there are again contrary examples to suggest the opposite. One argument for each is the Pouliot for Guillaume Latendresse trade. It could even be pointed that Pouliot has exemplified both coin sides on this angle.

For curiosity sake, fun and an argument or three, name a francophone player in the cap range of a current anglophone / Euro Hab that you feel would be an improvement.

As always with language questions, keep the discussion respectful, please.

Poll
What do you feel the position of Habs management should be on this question?
Bottom line - more francophone players upgrades the team
31 votes
The best players are always best - team first
279 votes
Neutral - the circumstance best dictates the course taken
43 votes

353 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 26 comments |

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I think there are some options out there that happen to be Francophone: we could still use a faceoff specialist, and Eric Belanger fits the bill quite nicely.

We do also have two bubble Francophone players in David Desharnais and Mathieu Carle who could make the team out of camp. Carle has a spot currently open for him with Markov injured to start the year. There is a spot, maybe two, open at forward as well, and Desharnais will have a chance to grab one of those.

I wouldn’t be too worried about it. Belanger would be a nice addition, and Gagne is a tempting fit as well (though he’d cost us one of Kostitsyn or Hamrlik at least), but then again Ponikarovsky would be a good fit on this roster, too. In a cap world, you can’t legislate the nationality of your team… you need the best team that limited amount of resources can buy. If there were no cap, hey, go ahead: get Lecavalier and make an outlandish offer sheet to David Perron. In theory, you can overpay for Francophone talent and still build a good team around them. But in a cap world? Forget about it. Only make moves that make sense economically and hockey wise. There’s no room for fantasy.

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by Bruce Peter on Jul 14, 2010 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Ponikarovski – never in a million, for me. I’d see Afinogenov alongside Gomez and Gionta, though, not that he’s all that more persevering!

by Robert L on Jul 14, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Poni scores some garbage goals. He’s not terribly skilled, and isn’t much defensively, but I think he’d work nicely with Cammalleri and Plekanec. I wouldn’t bend over backwards to fit him in, though… I’d just add him to add him, not to replace any player. If it couldn’t fit, then move on to the next guy.

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For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Jul 14, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

In a cap world it has to be more about the economics and less about nationality. Not only that but since when do Francophone Canadians only come from Quebec. There are plenty of folks in New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba that would disagree. Since Pouliot was born in Ontario he no longer qualifies as a French Canadian?? Seems discriminatory to me.

by hab a good time on Jul 14, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Jonathan Toews played for the Habs, the fans would happily claim him as one of their own! For those that don’t know, Toews is half-Franco-Manitoban, and does speak French. Also, fans keep complaining that we didn’t draft Claude Giroux from northern Ontario in 2006.

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For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.

by Bruce Peter on Jul 14, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Toews is a superstar, if he was a 4th liner would it be the same? As for Giroux, is it because they didn’t draft the french guy or that they drafted David Fischer, while Giroux was still available.

by hab a good time on Jul 14, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of the fans would, because most fans only care about winning. But I guarantee you a significant amount of the media would still point to him as part of the problem. I’ve heard francophone Acadians complain about the way some (not all) Quebecois act towards them. There is a small but very vocal minority in Quebec who think French-Canadian == Quebecois. It’s not a huge number but radical voices get the most airtime and I guarantee you that even if Toews were a Hab and brought home a cup, there would be people claiming that Lapierre should be captain or something stupid like that. The point is that unless the Habs win a Cup with all Quebec players, it will continue to be an issue because some people want to make it an issue, and they will find reasons to push their agenda regardless.

(I don’t want this to sound anti-Quebec, which I know is a danger. I’m more wanting to point out that there are certain people in Quebec with an agenda, and hockey is a convenient and attention-grabbing way to push it in a hockey-crazy province. If the target is Francophone players, that target will move when the agenda needs to be pushed again.)

by despisethesun on Jul 15, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disgusted and stunned that this would even be an issue. Sitting on the fence on this one Robert? Are you kidding me? You ice the best possible team, and who cares if the player is from Guyana, Kazakstan (Nik Antropov is – lol), or Burkina Faso?

Yappy Lappy signing was a good one at 900K. Well done Pete Gauthier!

I loathe Maxy Pad, but he is a useful little smile at the other team from the bench agitator. Has a little talent too. But his diving, whining, yapping ways are going to catch up to him sometime soon.

I fervently hope he gets all his teeth knocked out so he won’t be able to be Yappy Lappy so much anymore. Just jesting – kinda. Would like Boogard or Orr to do the job, but anyone will do. :) :)

Bien sur this will always be a major major issue with the mainstream French media in Montreal which is pathetique. Oh well. Ice your team and win hockey games without a care in the world where he is from.

Should not even be an issue to be discussed in this day and age, but the neanderthals insist on keeping it an issue. Outrageous and obscene.

by Pyramid Power on Jul 14, 2010 7:13 PM EDT reply actions  

To clarify, in certain circumstances yes, I would be sitting on the fence because the added sense of attachment to the team can sometimes make the francophone player truly bring it, responsability, over some others. The problem is that there hasn’t been a worthy example in recent years.

On occassion it can be about what makes a player best, not simply who the best player is on paper.

Louis Leblanc, until further announcement, is committed to Harvard, but is being wooed by the Montreal Junior in the Q.

by Robert L on Jul 14, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the info about Leblanc. He’d better head to the Q. if he wants to really make it in the NHL imo.

Comments about francophone players truly bringing it fair enough. OK. But some fold like cheap lawnchairs a la Guillaume Latendresse, Pierre Dagenais etc……..

by Pyramid Power on Jul 14, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t they folded, I think they were messed up between the ears due to pressure, family, friends, and in Gui’s case, playing on the wrong wing, on the wrong line.

by Robert L on Jul 16, 2010 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Curious to know what Louis Leblanc’s current status speaking of French Canadian players with the Canadiens.

Can anyone out there enlighten me? Thanks.

by Pyramid Power on Jul 14, 2010 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Can you blame em

I would think, unless your Sean Avery, that most kids coming out of junior or whatever just want to play hockey and not be constantly scrutinized in the media. I mean heaven forbid a twenty year old gets caught smoking in a nightclub. When it comes to hockey most Monteal media reads like a British tabloid, who would want that? I am sure that playing for the Habs would be a dream come true for any Quebec kid, french or english, but the constant limelight or scrutiny is a tall price to pay.

by hab a good time on Jul 15, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’re absolutely correct.
But, why be just a hockey player when you could be playing for the Canadiens?
Who cares if you play for Tampa Bay? What does that mean? Regardless of winning or not: pretty damn close to nothing!
There are a lot of kids all over the world who dream of playing baseball for the Yankees. There is a TON of pressure and scrutiny there…

Somehow, I guess, it is a combination of lack of recent success, and, sadly, a lot of local youth simply not having the balls to accept the challenge.

by nyhabsfan on Jul 15, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

French is nice but not necessary....

I would hope the days of seeking out players just because they are French-Canadian are over. I can remember the STUPID\POINTLESS trade that sent a YOUNG Chris Chelios to Chicago for an OLD, INJURY PRONE Denis Savard. Making trades or drafting players just to soothe Quebec pride seems silly.

by Montcalm's Revenge on Jul 15, 2010 10:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Having said that...

How about getting back Yann Danis and ditching Alex Auld?…. I know I’m beating a dead horse about Auld… but SHEESH! ;-(

by Montcalm's Revenge on Jul 15, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m a bit ambivalent about all this. Philosophically, I agree that place of birth shouldn’t play a role in the selection of players. But when you look at the decline in Quebec-born players dressed by the Habs over the past 30 or so years, it’s hard not to feel a little uneasy.

I’m preparing a blog post on this topic, and here’s a summary of what I found. In terms of regular season man-games, the share of Quebec-born players on the Habs stood at an average of 49% during the ‘76 to ’79 dynasty block. That share gradually declined, down to a low point of 24% in the Cup loss season of ’88-’89. The Quebec contingent then grew dramatically over the next few years, peaking in ‘92-’93, when 51% of the man-games during the cup season were played by Quebec-born players. By the end of the 1990s, however, the Quebec contingent only accounted for 21% of regular season man-games.

I haven’t crunched the data for all of the 2000s yet, but in 2009-2010, a paltry 14% of all regular season man-games were played by Quebec-born players. That’s somewhat sad.

Habs Analytics

by Michael Whitehouse on Jul 15, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

How does it compare to general league numbers, though? French-Canadian players comprise proportionately less of the entire league than they used to, not just the Habs.

by MathMan on Jul 16, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven’t progressed that far in the analysis yet, but it’ll definitely be something that I look at.

by Michael Whitehouse on Jul 16, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s the whole deal right there. When (and since) the francophone player is no longer exclusive property of the Habs, how is it that other teams seem to make better use of them.

That’s what stirs the brewing venom of francophone media right there.

by Robert L on Jul 17, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Media driven.... or actual feelings from Francophone Fans??

When I think of all the sports being played out of Montreal through the 80’s and early 90’s, language does not play a role in Montreals’ CFL or MLB teams. Is hockey so unforgiving of nationality that it losses sight of what is good for a team?

I’m not looking at specific incidents/players/or eras…. but when it comes to Canada’s sport, I don’t see Vancouver or Calgary Fans moaning about not having the proper allotment of western hockey players on their teams. Why so in Montreal??

Yes we are lacking a Damphousse, or LaFleur type player (these are names, I’m not comparing the players) but… what if the Habs signed Perezhogin, Emelin, Avtsin, Trunev and got rid of 4 north american players….. are we less likely to cheer for them? Less likely to show up at home or away games, less likely to pick up the RDS or CBC game??

Lets be serious… hockey is viral in Canada. Hockey is an epidemic in Montreal, and no matter the amount of french content, the Bell Centre will always sell out. The games will always be watched, and we’ll all be here 15 yrs from now complaining about the most resent non-sign, or trade, or what have you.

But by buying into the media hype from francophone analysts who either played the game very mediocre… or never played at all, is only adding fuel to a dead issue. Hockey players play hockey….. politicians belong in the house of commons. So… which are you a fan of….. the sport of hockey? Or bad social politics??

by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jul 16, 2010 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

“I don’t see Vancouver or Calgary Fans moaning about not having the proper allotment of western hockey players on their teams.”

In fairness, Darryl Sutter only ever seem to draft or sign Alberta players. The Copper n Blue did an article about what teams generally favour what leagues at the draft and Calgary demonstrated an insane love for the WHL. And the Oilers have a lot of Edmonton-area players in their system as well. But neither of those teams made the playoffs last year, and the Oilers haven’t for a while. Meanwhile, I’ve heard some Canuck fans complain about the Canucks having so many Europeans on their team and, while they’ve still never won a Cup, they’ve gone further than the Oilers and Flames have in the past few years. So the complaints are there, groundless or not. It just demonstrates that this is not unique to Montreal, though the “problem” may be more pronounced there as Mr. Whitehouse demonstrated above, and gets more attention because it’s tangled up in the already sensitive language and sovereignty debates that are always ongoing in Quebec.

by despisethesun on Jul 16, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

Aren’t we barking up the wrong tree here. Shouldn’t the question be “how can we improve development in Quebec so that more youngsters can break into the team?”

Look at it this way, investing more in developing younger talent, getting them experience and keeping them in Quebec would result in more high quality French Canadians playing for the Habs. The Habs win because they’re getting decent players and the fans win because they’re home town boys. Canada wins because more home grown players are playing for Canadian NHL teams.

Maybe creating a more joined up system in Quebec would help? In the South of France, the big Rugby clubs like Toulouse and Perpignan are always working with local feeder clubs and developmental camps to scout for tomorrows stars. The cultural tie between France and the sport is so great that its a huge plus for your family if you manage to get your son into one of the big club rugby camps for Biarritz or Toulouse. So you have a joined up system which links everyone from the tiny saturday league team in the Pyrenees all the way to the French national team.

If the Habs had that kind of system we’d see many more high quality local players breaking through I feel.

by Peter Vine on Jul 17, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd assume everyone here would have already read this, but...

…there was an excellent article at All Habs that said basically what I suspected the issue was and something similar to what Peter Vine was getting at. The issue isn’t that the Habs aren’t drafting Quebecois players, it’s that almost nobody is, comparatively speaking. Quebeckers just aren’t making the NHL at the same rate they used to, and there are any number of reasons for that, but if the talent pool isn’t all that big, then for the Habs to limit themselves to French-Canadian Quebecois at the draft table would be absolutely insane, especially since they rarely draft high enough to pick up the real (almost-)guaranteed top-shelf Quebec talent. Development of Quebec-born hockey talent has to become a priority in Quebec from the bottom-up if they want to regain their prominence. But then, I suspect most of the people who are vocally angry about the Canadiens’ small Quebecois roster don’t actually care about hockey, so why would they care about this?

Or maybe Sam Pollock should just come back from the grave and convince the NHL to let them pick a few Quebecois players before the draft begins to “protect their culture”.

by despisethesun on Jul 21, 2010 6:26 PM EDT reply actions  

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