Canadiens Deal Jaroslav Halak to the Blues for a Pair of Prospects
by Robert L on Jun 17, 2010 4:29 PM EDT
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Negotiations must not have gone as hoped with netminder Jaroslav Halak, as GM Pierre Gauthier shipped the RFA to the Blues for to young prospects.
Habs fans will surely be shocked and angry at the unforeseen developments, but by all appearances Gauthier has managed to gain for the organization a pair of worthy youngsters aged 19 and 20, who could help the team in the short term and cost little in the process.
Coming to Montreal in return are prospects Lars Eller and Ian Schultz.
Eller scored 2 goals in seven NHL games last season with St.Louis playing mainly with the AHL Peoria Rivermen in 2009-10, where he finished second in team scoring with 18-39-57 numbers.
Schultz was a Blues 2rd round pick in 2008. In 70 games last season with the WHL Calgary Hitmen he scored 24 goals and 31 assists in 70 games. In 23 playoff games, Schultz had 8-7-15 numbers, while helping Calgary to the WHL title. At 6' 3'', he is more noteworthy for his size. During the season Schultz had 150 penalty minutes.
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Moral of the story: goalies are pretty poor trading commodities.
Eller looks like he will be a good player though, and could make the Habs outright next year.
Blues fans thought he was a near lock for a spot on their team, and the Habs and Blues had virtually identical records.
Derek Zona is comapring Eller to Mikko Koivu because of his ES prowess as an AHL rookie. We could certainly use a lot of that.
Schultz was Ryan White’s teammate in junior, and they play fairly similar games, but Schultz is bigger.
I thought Eller was a little bigger (6’2") but he’s apparently 6’1, 200. Still makes him our biggest centre, though. Dude got 57 points as an AHL rookie in 70 games despite missing preseason with mono.
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Schultz really rounded into a quality two-way forward this year. He played the front of the net on the PP, and was the go-to guy for 5-on-3s and faceoffs on the PK. Damned near every SH situation he was in, he wound up eating the puck in the offensive zone for 10 seconds at one point or another. I think his game will translate well to the pros, though I’m not sure if his ceiling is much higher than the third line on a good team/second line on a bad team.
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So Patrick Roy was a poor trading commodity?
by yathehabsrule on Jun 17, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Patrick Roy was a Hall of Famer, and was traded in a different era.
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A Price meltdown is eminent. I think anyone here who believes Price can duplicate what Halak did in the playoffs, or even man the starting role for an entire season, is either delusional or an idiot. This trade comes as a shock to me, but your team could use the size. Maybe they plan on calling up Cedric Desjardins and seeing what he can do.
by Mario's Mullet on Jun 17, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So call me delusional and an idiot!
Maybe you should be signed up as the Habs GM, because you seem to think that you know more than 15 hockey heads with 20 years experience combined.
by Robert L on Jun 17, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Thanks for the compliment
Do you really trust Carey Price to be your starting goalie for an entire season?
by Mario's Mullet on Jun 17, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope! Not even with an aging veteran to ‘tutor’ him.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see why not.
Price provided starter-quality goaltending this year. That Halak provided Vezina goaltending does not change that. It’s also not a knock on Price if his team needs miraculous goaltending to win too many nights, and more often when he happens to start.
if the team cannot win with Price as its starter, the team has some serious problems and goaltending is not one of them.
by MathMan on Jun 17, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So how do you account for the attitude of the players in front of him during the games?
I am sure that Markov never had to get in Halak’s face to get him centered.
Regardless of Price’s accolades at 22, he still hasn’t proven himself to his teammates, not alone to us fans.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
At a certain point, that’s on them, not the goalie. If the goalie plays well, and the players fuck up, it’s their problem, not his.
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I seem to remember Chris’s December goalie analysis breaking down the goal support for each goalie, and being struck by how the PP went 40%+ with Halak and less than 5% with Price.
I mean, confidence in goaltending is supposed to affect the power play?
by MathMan on Jun 17, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, really. I mean, PK being affected by the goalie/confidence therein? Sure. PP? Absurd.
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I’ve followed him since he’s been in the AHL. I’ve seen a goalie who routinely loses his starting job since Huet was traded to Washington and whose career playoff stats are 5-11 with an .894 SV% and 3.17 GAA.
by Mario's Mullet on Jun 17, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched the WJHC and as many televised Bulldogs game as I could. I watched him every season he’s been here. There’s not be a big drop off in his playing, but confidence from the team seems to be an issue. RIghtly or wrongly, but if a team gets a 2 goal cushion and continually looks over their shoulder wondering when Price is going to flounder …. don’t matter if you have Roy, Worsley, or PLante in net if all things go helter skelter.
But the likely fix is net, not the 20 guys in front of him.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 18, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think anyone here who believes Price can duplicate what Halak did in the playoffs
I doubt Halak can duplicate what he did. “Sell high”
Looks like you guys got a solid return.
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by red army line on Jun 17, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Negotiations must not have gone as hoped with netminder Jaroslav Halak…
Per Bob McKenzie’s Twitter, they might not have gone at all:
Only surprise to me was ZERO contact between MTL/Halak once season ended. Only contact was J Martin phoning Halak today to say, U r traded..
According to Halak’s agent, Canadiens didn’t have word one with him:
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s surprising, but they must have guessed he wasn’t going to be had for an acceptable price tag, like $3m. Or they really do have undying confidence in Price, like the press conference spin they gave.
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It’s safe to assume they didn’t value him as much as they thought he valued himself, but to not even talk to the guy is crazy! It basically shows they didn’t intend to re-sign him ever, regardless of his performance. I doubt anything outside of a cup win would have kept Halak in Montreal.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Weren’t there also rumours of him asking for a trade months ago? Maybe they just decided it wasn’t worth the bother/premium, and the RFA compensation (2nd-rounder) wasn’t going to cut it.
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He asked for a trade, Gainey shopped him, offered him to Philly (presumably for a 2nd rounder), they weren’t interested.
He sold high. If he was worth a 2nd in November, he upped himself to a recent first rounder who is progressing quite well (Eller) plus a decent prospect in Schultz. Both address needs in the system to boot.
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by Bruce Peter on Jun 17, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus, RFA compensation is a 2nd rounder for what I’d consider reasonable dollars for Halak (~$3M), anyway. Given the market, Gauthier probably did pretty well.
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LOL
That video is of Schultz fighting Cameron Cepek, Montreal’s 7th round pick in 2006.
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So people are ok with the 7 year Price Project???
You can’t tell me one Centre with limited NHL experience makes up for a tender who will stand on his head, gain the confidence of his team and bring them to the ECF?
I don’t know what to say. I am still in shock
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
7 years?
He has been on the team for 3 seasons. Halak didn’t make the Habs until he was 22 years old, guess how old Price is right now.
Yes 7 yrs…. that’;s how long we’ll have him before knowing how good he is/was…
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 18, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I was going to make a rare EOTP appearance making an argument for trading Halak over the weekend.
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Great minds think alike :)
I had all the charts about goaltenders spiking between 23-27, the RFA/UFA argument, the cap numbers, the historical context of what Price has accomplished by 22 etc.
I guess I will just change the title and try to show why it wasn’t a bad trade.
With more explanation in regards to the bigger picture for the team, not just in the goal tending dept.
Are you guys speculating that there’s more coming down the pike than the ’prospects with high hopes" they just received?
They need a fast and steady guy on the second line for Cam and Plek..
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Blues need to shell out 4 million to sign Halak (the number is according to Andy Strickland), that’s a pretty good argument for trading Halak right there.
Ok so Eller and Schultz were obviously the best they could do, and they save a few bucks in the short term, while waiting to see if these guys are any better than those building themselves up in Hamilton?
With no guarantees that Plek’s stays…. it just looks like a crap shoot all the way around, even after Gauthier talked about the importance of keeping the core together…..
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the only difference this makes to Pleks signing is that Gauthier actually has more cap space to work him in now. So I don’t really see this trade as related to that.
Eller instantly becomes the Habs’ top prospect at C. The fact that we as Habs fans haven’t seen him much doesn’t mean that the Habs haven’t. He is quite highly regarded.
Yeah and we have seen those ‘not highly regarded’ escape us through the draft (Giroux) of traded away before we get any use out of them (LeClair)
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
we could have bought out Hamrlik too, and saved money there as well.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Hamrlik can be traded, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see it happen to move money to the forwards. After re-singing Plekanec the Habs will still be short a top-six forward and that’s where the money might come from.
Yes, IF they re-sign Pleks, otherwise they are out 2 top 6 forwards.
I’m really not a naysayer, and have been behind all the moves over the last year or so. Today flipped my lid.
I am praying that Hamrlik is gone. I do believe that Patrick Sharp could be moving from Chi-town and would love him on a line with Plek and Cam… though his 3.9 mil is a bit much without some form of movement somewhere. Gomez, as much as I like his sandpaper, I think we could do better for the money. Not likely Habs brass would ask for him to take a pay cut for the betterment of the team eh?
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I already had a post up last Saturday, with a couple scenarios.
by yathehabsrule on Jun 17, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, saw that one, too. Only the Globe & Mail’s podcast were put forth the idea that Halak would be the one to go (Duhatschek even called St. Louis), but other places floated the possibility that Halak had played his last game as a Hab. Good on you for looking at the options available. Ellis is definitely one of the better ones. I like Biron and Niittymaki as cost effective placeholders as well.
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Damn, the Hek called St.Louis? Now I gotta change today’s post on my site. I said if someone said they called St. Louis, they were lying through their teeth! LOL
by yathehabsrule on Jun 17, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah how did he pan out for the Blackhawks?
by yathehabsrule on Jun 17, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's just killing our cap - that's all.
Now we have to deal with playing against Halak too? The Central division goalies are going to be a nighmare to play against next year.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
He wasn’t ‘invincible’ and if the GM/Coach agreed on who would be in nets in the 2007 playoffs, we woulda seen Halak play his game then. But GM/Coach pulled Halak after Huet returned from injury. And so we waited til the 2009 playoffs.
We can do the roundabout ‘this guy this" … “that guy that”… but I can’t believe that Price is/will be better than what Halak has become. If he’s as flakey as he has shown so far (YES he has had MONUMENTAL Success on different stages of professional hockey for a 22 yr old- 30 yr old) but.. and I hate to ask…. Will he manage his cooky-ness now that he is the Sherrif in Town???
7 yrs… yes I make mention to that due to the later 20’s being the ‘deciding element’ of the worth of a goaltender throughout his career.
My issue is the team DID not Play in front of him all season. Yes he was humbled this year. I don’t think he has the stability to shake off a bad loss and pull it together.
Next Question: WHO are they bringing in/ up for Back-up??
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 5:53 PM EDT reply actions
Halak is a mortal lock to come back to Earth a bit. Unless he is the best goalie in NHL history, but I dobut that. What we’ve seen from Halak this year is very likely to be the best season of his career, or second-best at worst.
Price won’t take 7 years to be a starter. He was a starter-quality goalie last year, even despite the appalling lack of goal support. But Halak was playing better so he quite rightly took the #1 job. That doesn’t mean Price was chopped liver.
Price at 22 is as good or better than Halak was at 22. 22-year-olds are not supposed to be starter-quality NHL goaltenders.
I don’t know how you can definitively say Halak’s last season will be the best of his career. And if Price had no support, why did Halak do so well? Did the team choose to play worse with Price in net?
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
With ya all the way on that one GIP
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s my thing; I just can’t get a beat on Montreal’s decision making. I’m a Kings fan and I’ve only see both goalies play in a handful of games, but to me, Halak looked clutch and Price looked good, but not great. The Kings have a very similar situation on their hands as well, Quick had a great season which may be the best of his career when it’s all said and done. They also have a younger untested guy in Bernier that is being touted as the future of the franchise. However, the Kings are rewarding Quick for his service to the team by saying it’s his spot to lose going into camp. Granted, Quick is still under contract, and granted it’s a business and Montreal has to do what they feel is best for winning, but I just don’t see how this can be viewed as what’s best for the team. If they think Halak was going to ask for so much money, then it’s a real shame they don’t have the money to spend on him and that it was wasted on picking up Gomez’s ridiculous contract, because to me Halak is more integral to the Habs winning than any other individual.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, because he goaled .924.
That’s a once or twice in a lifetime performance unless you are Dominik Hasek. Just looking at the career numbers of elite goaltenders, such a level of performance is an outlier for most of them.
Luongo has one season at that level or higher. Lunqvist 0 (closest he got was .922).
Um, okay, that’s a number. But how do you know that he won’t go in and steal games for St. Louis next year in the playoffs? How do you know that his best days are behind him? How do you know Price’s best days aren’t behind him? You don’t. I don’t. It’s speculation. Gauthier said it himself it’s about what he thinks will happen in the future. I’m not entirely in favor of only basing decision making on past performance, but you can’t definitively say Halak’s best days are behind him.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But you can say that .924 (or for that matter, his career average .919) is not his “true talent.” Do we even know his “true talent,” after only 100 RS games and about 20 playoff games? I doubt it. His numbers have been inconsistent season to season, and have fluctuated between backup-quality numbers and Vezina-quality numbers. I don’t trust any of that shit as far as I can throw it.
The bottom line is, we don’t know, but we can reasonably guess that he’s not a Hall of Famer. Plus, he doesn’t want to be here, so why the hell would we keep him? Sell high, get what you can (which isn’t a lot, but isn’t nothing, either), and hope that the players get with the program when Carey’s in net.
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You could say everything you just said about Price as well.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And who said he didn’t want to be there??? He asked for a trade when they did the flip flopping on who would be Numero Uno, and once he established he was, he was.
He doesn’t want a 1a/1b situation… understandably after this many years in MTL. I don’t fault the guy for wanting a bigger piece of the pie and for the media to let up on him. So he said he wanted out….. so did Kobe… and he’s working on ring #5…..
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
So you basically have two goalies who you know will be good but no idea how good. One will come a lot cheaper than the other and is younger (thus more upside theoretically). Which do you keep?
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by red army line on Jun 17, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true, however not even talking to Halak or his agent and saying that they know what he would have asked for, when even agents were saying they had no idea what Halak’s arbitration value was to me is ludicrous. We have no idea what he would have asked for (though the number that keeps coming up is $3 million) so what’s the harm in talking to him first before trading him? Think about it, what’s the harm? If I had to speculate, I would say the Habs had their wagon hitched to Price and they were afraid Halak would come back with a reasonable number and to refuse would piss his fans off more, and to accept would delay the coming out party for Price, whom they believe is the future, despite his topsy-turvy start and his indignant attitude toward the Habs fans.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It was going to be 3 million or more, and possibly 4 million plus. Either case, not worth it with Price on the roster.
I think Gauthier is smart enough to figure out what Halak was going to ask for in rough terms. And even if Halak’s demands were going to be reasonable, trading Halak made the most sense in a hockey sense.
I respect your point of view, but I disagree.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Despite what Halak’s agent will tell the world, Gauthier knew what it would take to keep him. Signing him for in excess of $4M screwed with team structure. With Halak’s three year numbers, an arbitrator (and that’s where this was headed) would have awarded him at least that, based on what other goalies of similar numbers are getting.
Regardless, what would the harm be in at least hearing from Halak?
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Halak probably burned a few bridge when he demanded the trade
Just saying.
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by playingwithfire on Jun 17, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay. Why not at least talk to Halak before trading him?
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I won’t claim to understand that, but I guess the deal progressed pretty far along that he made up his mind. This trade happened sooner than I would have thought. I did think they’d talk, and the numbers wouldn’t jive, but Gauthier obviously trusted his instincts that it wouldn’t be fruitful and made the deal in advance of discussions.
Bold move in that sense. I doubt I’d have been as cold and calculated, even if I had this possibility in mind all along.
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Who knows they did not hear from him and speak to his agent. Just because Alan Walsh says whatever, doesn’t mean it is true. He’s not going to divulge squat, as he now has the Blues to negotiate with.
Gauthier indirectly acknowledged that the team didn’t have negotiations with agent Allan Walsh and Halak before trading him, saying that they understood the market enough to know what the numbers would have been.
What I’m asking is, what’s the harm? If you already know the answer, there’s no harm in hearing it. And who knows, maybe he would have asked for less.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see Halak
all teary eyed about being traded(like Ryan Smyth back a couple years ago). So him signing on a bargain seems doubtful and the trade market for Price probably isn’t much better and Price is chearper, younger and had a better amateur profile
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by playingwithfire on Jun 17, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Look I understand all of this. I just think it’s bad management to treat your players solely as commodities and not talk to them in person. Whether or not he is better than Price is moot, we all have our take on that part, I just can’t agree with the decision to not talk to Price, and no one has a good reason why Gauthier didn’t talk to him. And saying he knew what Halak would ask for, to me, is not a good reason. As a non-Habs fan, for me this is about trying to understand a GM’s motivations.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Today we don’t… and if the team surrounding him doesn’t play like they did for Halak….. he won’t be worth that in the future…
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe Chicago ditched Hasek before he took off…
How can you be sure that Halak will flop but Price will prosper? Halak has consistently had a save percentage in the 920’s at every level including the playoff run.
From Hickey’s column.
Price has a career record of 60-48-18, which doesn’t seem bad. But since the 2009 All-Star Game, his record is 20-32-10, and he is 0-5 in playoff action.
If you question Halak’s good numbers, what do Prices bad numbers say to you?
This could still work out, depending on Gauthier’s vision, but everyone’s contentment with the trade seems pretty optimistic until we see the whole picture.
by blockersave93 on Jun 17, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That he came back too early from injury in ’09 and got no goal support this year.
Wins are a bullshit stat.
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Sorry, you are 100% wrong, wins are all that matter.
I want the Habs to win, not find excuses for why they don’t which is exactly what you provided for Price.
I want the freaking cup, not a nice guy we all can make excuses for, and that goes for the entire team.
by blockersave93 on Jun 18, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, you are 100% wrong. A goaltender has zero fucking influence on what happens 200 ft away from him. If his forwards can’t convert, how is that his problem?
You’re only as good as your goal support. This isn’t soccer; you can’t win every game 1-0.
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More appropriate: if his team can’t get the puck in the other end of the ice very often, how is that the goalie’s fault? Or how can you blame a goalie for eventually letting in a softie?
Halak did a little better than Price in that situation, but Price got no help.
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Also a valid point.
Put another way, Miikka Kiprusoff led the League in wins in 2008-09 despite putting up his worst goalie stats by a mile in his time as a Flame. Rob Kerr’s talking him up like a fucking Vezina candidate, but anyone with two eyes can see that he’s playing like a pile of turd and his team is bailing him out.
Fast forward to this year, Kiprusoff actually does play like a Vezina candidate…and his team misses the playoffs. But it’s his fault because “he didn’t win enough games,” right?
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But the way he’s handled the stress in La Belle Province suggests he may not reach the ‘epic goaltender’ status that people believe he ‘might’ turn into.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 6:22 PM EDT reply actions
Its the same as the argument that Luongo is the best tender in the league.
He hasn’t proven a thing, but he won a gold medal with Canada’s elite NHL team in the Olympics. But he can’t get ya out of the second round?? Puleeze.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 6:24 PM EDT reply actions
Luongo is not the best tender anymore
BUT, he was fantastic with team canada, go look at the numbers.
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by playingwithfire on Jun 17, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
My point being, he can’t win a series on his own, and he falters BIG time in playoff games.
In my mind Luongo was never, and will never be the best tender….. a more elite version of Cujo maybe.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
Are you implying that Halak won the Capitals and Penguins series by himself? And by claiming Lou is just a better version of Cujo, you are dissing not 1 but 2 great goalies. I don’t think you remember but Cujo stole a couple playoff series in his time with the Oilers and Blues and was more than solid with the Leafs.
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by playingwithfire on Jun 17, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And he still might miss the HOF…. that’s all I’m saying
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s rare to win a playoff series by yourself. Halak did that (I’d say) against Washington (of course his D helped, etc, but Halak’s sv% was still insane). Might have been once in a lifetime.
Vokoun since the lockout has been the best goalie, but hasn’t done much in the playoffs. I guess teams tie up money in goalies and can’t spend elsewhere.
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by red army line on Jun 17, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Ploy??
So they give away a guy, unsigned, for two possibilities. They text Halak and say “Don’t sign”. They trade Price to Philly for Carter and package of players, then re-sign Halak….
Yes in the realm of impossibility…. but… its easier on me if I can through non-sense on top of non-sense today.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions
Sure I do
I play armchair GM
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by playingwithfire on Jun 17, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Interestingly
I think Bob McKenzie reported that there’s some KHL interest for Halak. If true, then it would be an absolute steal for Montreal.
And Price to Philly for Carter and a package of players is just…impossible. Not even an option. Seriously.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 17, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
KHL
Not a realistic option right now. The Blues could take Halak to arbitration and force him to sign a deal with them, voiding the KHL option entirely. Not a great way to start a relationship with a new team, but that’s the rules. The KHL won’t allow that type of deal, they’re playing super nice in advance of KHL-NHL exhibition games this fall and trying to get the NHL to commit to Sochi in 2014.
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If he went to the KHL
It would be a steal for the Habs alright, and a nightmare for Walsh. If he couldn’t find a deal for Halak to stay in the NHL, after that playoff run, most of his other clients would bail!
by yathehabsrule on Jun 17, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
All good points
I am somewhat surprised that Montreal didn’t even enter any sort of formal contract negotiation with Halak though.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 17, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly!
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a breakdown of the Gauthier conference call in the article on my site. The Habs made their decisions, knowing what Halak/Walsh would expect $ wise and felt negotiations were not needed.
by yathehabsrule on Jun 17, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, if I were a Habs fan I would just be infuriated that Gauthier didn’t even talk to the guy, regardless of what he thought he knew about what Halak would ask for. That’s just the way I would feel. I would at the very least expected him to talk to the man himself to confirm, hear him out, whatever.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 17, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
They had to trade either Halak or Price. The logic goes like this: if you think Price can be a good starting goaltender (I do, so do many others), then you trade Halak because a) Halak has a better case to get a larger salary increase and b) Halak is worth more on the market. You’re getting the greatest return possible for the necessary trade.
by SmellOfVictory on Jun 17, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As I indicated, the last post was non-sense.
Yes I am aware of the terminology. Robert, I may not be the most research-mobile guy out there, but, seriously.
I know that the 2nd rounder the Habs would have got would not help. I know that Halak is worth more than Price. I am a passionate fan with sentimental tendencies to players that play with heart and conviction, and I felt that after watching Halak grow into a better goaltender over the last couple of years, they could have offered something. I am not a business guy, so there are lots of things that financially make sense for a team like the Habs , that I as a passionate fan am not a fan of. And maybe I am just reeling from the swift decision making of Gautier. Though the timing of this deal will likely indicate a moving forward on other deals/contracts in the near future.
I waited on deciding about last year’s team, I thought it was a matter of gelling. I just felt the Habs did not play a sound game in front of Price when he was in net. His fault?? I donno, but to know that the quiet gentle giant (Markov) got in Price’s face must account for something that he may have been doing untoward to the rest of the team.
He’s growing up. At 22 he’s accomplished what many would only dream of. and given the right circumstances he could be the next Roy. But for me. He hasn’t shown that yet, and I fear we’ll be relying on a back-up for more than just the occasional spot game. If we don’t get Plek to sign, I don’t want to think about what they will have to give away to secure 2 more top 6 forwards.
Yes that’s a lot of thinking but…. guess explaining my take on things.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll have whatever he is on.
Newsflash: Halak’s rights are now the Blues.
by yathehabsrule on Jun 17, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing I need to point out
We might be remembering the good and forgetting the bad. As good as Halak was against Washington and Pittsburgh, he was equally ineffective against the Phillies(and had bad games against both Washington and Pittsburgh).
His final playoff GAA was 2.55 and SV% was .923, good but hardly legendary like a lot of us seem to remember.
I mean just a couple numbers for comparison
2003 JS Giguere 1.62 .945 Brodeur(people keep remembering the 1 bad goal he gave up that playoff and Giguere) 1.65 .934
2004 Kiprusoff 1.69 .933
2006 Bryzgalov 1.46 .944
2007 Luongo(this is for you cruisin) 1.77 .941 Turco 1.30 .952
2008 MA Fleury 1.97 .933 Osgood 1.55 .930
2009 Hiller 2.23 .943 Tim Thomas 1.85 .935
Was Halak the best goalie this playoff? Arguably(If Colorado plays better in front of Anderson, we might be talking about him right now). But this is a weak year for goalie in the playoffs. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves and proclaim Jaro a great future star yet. Plenty of goalies have 1 hot playoff and went on to have average careers.
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by playingwithfire on Jun 17, 2010 8:59 PM EDT reply actions
I hear ya, and there are HOF type goaltenders like Fuhr who had less sparkling numbers but more cups. So it goes both ways. I feel, as inflated as some people feel his numbers were, he’s on his way up.
And the character and leadership he must have to instill confidence in the WHOLE team is something short of miraculous. That’s what I am peaking about. Not Potential, not stats, the mere fact the team feels comfortable playing in front of him. Something that Carey is unable, or was unable to obtain from the team.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 17, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Carey lifted the team up his rookie season
don’t forget that.
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Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Jun 17, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
From Hickey’s column.
Price has a career record of 60-48-18, which doesn’t seem bad. But since the 2009 All-Star Game, his record is 20-32-10, and he is 0-5 in playoff action.
Are you so confident about Price after seeing those numbers? If they tender him minimum and bring in reasonable backup to COMPETE with Price, AND bring in more scoring I like the deal.
Lots of ifs now, this is like looking at the Mona Lisa before the face was completed….we’ll have to wait and see.
by blockersave93 on Jun 17, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see why bringing up a team stat (record) reflects much on the goaltender.
I’d be curious to see his goaltending numbers over that stretch. Certainly his goaltender number last years were pretty good.
Are you saying that Halaks save percentage isn’t important and Prices W/L record doesn’t matter?
Price was 2.77 and .912 last year. (under .500 I might add), .905 and 2.83 the previous year. I don’t have the breakdown of the entire stretch Hickey was referring to…but it would have included some playoff stinkers .878 and 4.11 playoffs last year that we have all forgotten to go with .890 3.56 from this year.
Again how confident are you with his numbers?
You can’t have it both ways, you can’t poo-poo Halak while praising Price when you look at all the numbers. The smart money is on BOTH failing quite frankly.
by blockersave93 on Jun 17, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Sv% and W/L are in large part team stats.
Even strength sv% is better for characterizing goalies, and Halak is good not elite.
Price’s W/L coincides with MTL not being that 1st in the East team like in 2007-2008. Sv%, the PK not as good.
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by red army line on Jun 17, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m quite confident about his numbers actually. His goaltending numbers, mostly variations on Sv%.
But W-L is a team stat. As an evaluation of goaltenders, it’s about 95% worthless.
How can you have your cake and eat it too?
Price has had low save percentage in the NHL which is ok, he’ll get better.
Halak has always had pretty high save percentage which is obviously going to fall.
The best prediction of the future is past results. So you’re ok with a .900 save percentage going forward? I am certainly not.
While W/L are the team, why is it that everyone applauds Price’s wins before the age of 22 as a indicator he’s going to be good. Or his winning the Calder Cup or World Junior title, that was a team too, how does he get all the credit and make him an obvious superstar when his NHL numbers are pedestrian.
I don’t want him to fail, that means my Habs fail. I want to win the Cup and unless Gauthier strengthens the team in other ways by avoiding Halaks salary demands, this didn’t get us closer to winning the Cup and may have made it less likely if Price continues his marginal play.
by blockersave93 on Jun 18, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
The best predictor of future performance is even-strength percentage, and Price and Halak are very close in that department. Price’s overall save percentage is okay — not great, not bad, just okay — but the majority of the difference between the two is special teams save %… and that’s highly volatile for any goalie and is the most team-dependent portion of save %.
Halak’s not going to “fail”, but he’s not going to be a .924 goaltender his whole career.
Price’s Calder Cup and WHJC wins may be colored by his impressive goaltending stats through those runs, and the fact he earned MVP honors in both instances, maybe?
Yes… and then they gutted the team.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 18, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
At least there’s no more goaltending controversy now.
It sucks if the organization did not even talk with him though.
It’s ironic that Halak ended up as the main reason for Gainey and Gauthier looking credible as GMs, and then this happens to him.
Hopefully, for Jaro’s sake he cashes in, and has a great season. I think he will do well.
The goaltending controversy is NEVER over.
Vachon/Worsley lead to
Vachon/Dryden lead to
Dryden/Larocque which lead to
Larocque/Herron which lead to
Herron/Sevigny/Wamsley which lead to
Wamsley/Penney which lead to
Penney/Roy which lead to
Roy/Racicot which lead to
Thibault/Moog which lead to
Thibault/Theodore which lead to
Theodore/Hackett which lead to
Theodore/Huet which lead to
Huet/Price which lead to
Price/Halak.
The Montreal fanbase is passionate and irrational. So they like to scapegoat. This is the city that booed Ken Dryden after 5 cups in 7 years. This is the city that embarrassed Patrick Roy for one bad night.
Halak would have received the exact same treatment had he not left. The only way you avoid controversy is to play on the level of a Hall of Famer. That is it.
by Chris Boyle on Jun 18, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Chris, I was thinking the same thing. If Price isn’t the saviour that Halak was, we’re going to be here doing the same thing 6-8 months from now. And we’ll all back up what we say using stats and opinions from ‘the experts’ and the only thing that will matter to most is the fact we aren’t in the playoffs.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 18, 2010 9:18 AM EDT reply actions
And hey, I don’t mind eating my words. If Price turns out to be what he was advertised to be…. I’ll be here saying “Wow what a great choice by Gauthier”. No doubt about it.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jun 18, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions
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