Should The Habs And Flyers Play Let's Make A Deal For Carey Price?
by Robert L on Apr 2, 2010 5:51 AM EDT
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All those "Price is right" puns - Habs fans likely never imagined it would come to this and take on such a perspective.
This might be more than speculative, but rumours are that the Flyers were only curious about the asking price for Jaroslav Halak a few months back, and that the goaltender they truly covet is Carey Price. In fact, as Halak earned more starts for Montreal down the final stretch, at one point, GM Pierre Gauthier let it slip that calls for Price from teams actually increased the more the Habs leaned towards Halak as their go to goalie.
That's a very telling notion, and poses some curious questions and options for the Canadiens brass.
Rather than get full into another biased camp debate, let's leapfrog right over to the ultimate question. If Montreal were to deal Price to the Flyers, the return would have to be a significant one. The Canadiens, in such a scenario, would then face Price four times per season if he were to become a Flyer, for many years into the unforeseeable future. The Habs would then be looking for a trade that would offer similar quality for coming years.
Now from a Flyers point of view, over the summer, they may be able to get their mits on Marty Turco or Tomas Vokoun, who are both aging, and have never won much of significance. The Flyers goaltending issues are longstanding, and a very frustrating killer point in Philly failure for decades. For a good while now, the Flyers have gone through goalies like Hugh Hefner goes through bottles of Viagra.
Acquiring Price from Montreal, in Philadelphia's eyes, could potentially solve that particular issue for several seasons. It is late for them, in terms of solving that issue, and if they are truly intent on resolving it once and for all, they would be willing to offer up a heady return.
Now if you're Pierre Gauthier, no better time than now to be greedy. If the Flyers truly are serious and set on nabbing Price, both organizations are likely in agreement that as the highest drafted goalie in the past five drafts, he is worth a significant return.
Personally, I understand that this question and the following poll will stir some passionate emotion. My take would be that I'm not prepared at this point to see either of the Canadiens goaltenders dealt, unless some home run type of trade can be completed.
The window for a two team beneficial blockbuster deal opens and closes terribly fast. The Flyers have a desperate need right now, that is also recognized by a number of organizations. Salary cap considerations will come into play over the summer, and options will decrease between the time of the 2010 Entry Draft and the opening of free agency on July 1.
Equally imminent, is the solving of the Canadiens goaltending questions. Can the Habs truly endure one more season with a Price / Halak goaltending controversy constantly on the backburner? Does pushing this question for another season lead perhaps to a deterioration of the situation, and maybe even risk the eventuality that one goalie or the other's worth depreciates in value?
These are serious questions that need the be considered over the summer.
I really hate to suggest it, but it just might be the time, in regards to that window of opportunity, to cut the deck, play the hand dealt, and move forward.
Here are your six polling options, covering the whole wide spectre of emotions and fears.
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Don't trade him
This is all brought on by media and fans, not his development.
Never make decisions based on media/fans perceptions. This is NEVER going to go away, why people continue to make statements like “he will be best served somewhere else”, of course he will, he will have survived the toughest market in sports, gained playoff experience, highs and lows and will be the winningest goaltender at his age outside of Patrick Roy all at the age of 23.
So now the Canadiens are a development league for other teams because the fans are idiots? People need to pull their head out of their asses and look into the history of this franchise.
Fine me ONE goaltender who has not gone through this since the 60s.
For Worsley he had the shadow of Vachon, when Vachon got the job he lost it to Dryden, Dryden won 5 cups in 7 seasons! and the fans wanted to replace him with Bunny Laraque in the Stanley Cup Finals. BUNNY LARACQUE!!!
Herron, Wamsley, Sevigny all struggled in the shadow of Dryden and were all pushed out. Steve Penney arrives from nowhere and by 1986 the fans want Patrick Roy.
Patrick Roy wins the Cup and the fans want Bryan Hayward in 1987. After 3 Vezinas, multiple All-Star appearances and a Cup the fans want Andre Racicot to start the 1993 playoffs. ANDRE F#$KING RACICOT!!!!
Roy is booed out of the building and is traded for Thibault. Thibault becomes the whipping boy because the fans want Theodore. Hackett replaces Thibault and the fans still want Theodore. The fans get Theodore and then want Huet.
Huet is the starter for ONE season and they want Price now. Price becomes the starter and now they want Halak.
Am I to believe that if they deal Price that the fanbase will not take their irrational stupidity and long for Cedric Desjardins if Halak struggles? Or they will revise history and pretend they wanted Price to stay when he becomes a dominant goaltender for another team.
If the Canadiens had run their franchise like this there would have been no 70s dynasty because they would have dealt a 23 year old Guy Lafleur because he was obviously a bust, because athletes don’t get better during their prime.
This fanbase is so stupid that the Patrick Roy scenario where they were 100% wrong didn’t teach them a single lesson. If you can boo the best goaltender of the modern generation, then booing Price means absolutely nothing, it just confirms their idiocy.
by Chris Boyle on Apr 2, 2010 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
The most telling thing is that every intelligent Leaf fan I know is PRAYING that the Habs deal Price. One of your biggest rival hopes you deal your only player with superstar potential and Canadiens fans can’t pry their head out of their asses and peer outside their fishbowl.
They won't trade him.
There is no goalie problem whatsoever in Montréal. We have two young, cheap goaltenders and even if they combine for a 4 or 5 millions cap hit next year, they still are a pretty good deal. Nobody’s going anywhere soon. This controversy is a simple example of the sports media doing what they have done forever, that is : Rince, Wash, Repeat.
That being said, there is no such thing as an untouchable, espacially in the offseason. If somebody’s idiot enough to overpay, well…
Hold on, not that I endorse such a trade, but the eventual longing for Cedric Desjardins is far from iirational stupidity after his killer AHL season. Come next season, goalie trade or no, the Canadiens will be forced to find out what he can do at the NHL level.
Don't get caught up in AHL numbers
Jason LaBarbera was an AHL MVP. The last 5 AHL goaltenders of the year have been Michael Leighton, LaBarbera, Danny Sabourin and Ryan Miller. Miller is the big name on the list, but he won it during the lockout season. The next 5 winners were Marc Lamothe, Martin Prusek, Dwayne Roloson and Martin Brochu.
LaBarbera has won it twice.
Now look at career backup Curtis Sanford’s numbers in relation to Desjardins this season.
Desjardins – 27-8-3, 1.93 GAA, .923 SV%, 6 SO
Sanford – 23-11-3, 2.13 GAA, .916 SV% 4 SO
On first glance this screams SYSTEM. These numbers are indicative that the Bulldogs play a strong system. I will delve into strength of opposition etc. to see how much of a difference there is between the two.
Desjardins is no sure thing.
Yes I understand, but that system and coach will be in Montreal, perhaps in time to greet the goaltender within another 12 to 16 months.
Also worth considering in Deshardins case, is that he is on a career progression. He’s won a Mem Cup, did he not win a Kelly as well? He’s on his way to going deep for the Calder possibly. He’s not a flash, I don’t think, but he’s definitely worth a good long hard look at the NHL level before he’s written off as a career minor leaguer.
He won his Mem Cup at an older age than Price won his Calder Cup. He was an overager when the Remparts won. Kelly Cup I don’t really care about.
He also was outplayed by career stiff Marc Denis last season in Hamilton. I am suspect of a player who failed to significantly outperform Marc Denis and Curtis Sanford over the last 2 seasons. Once again, I would have to look at all the factors, but on first glance I am extremely skeptical.
If Boucher’s system comes with him to Montreal, Price will win multiple Vezina’s wheras Desjardins would likely have monster regular seasons and poor post seasons.
Totally agree with Chris. Keep ‘em. And Martin should have started him tonight – by not doing so he’s completely shattered the poor kids’ self-esteem. Not too smart, Jacques.
I’d be satisfied with just getting the waterboy’s water bottle. Even empty.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
I would feel a lot better about this whole situation if I trusted the coach—which I don’t. Or if the GM’s nickname was “Lou.” This could turn out so disastrous, I don’t even want to think about it.
Sam Pollock’s one truly bad trade involved a goalie—Rogie Vachon—but was at least understandable. Dryden had just come off the ’71 Stanley Cup. Rogie was demanding a trade, and something had to give. But the return was such that the trade still stunk.
I particularly don’t like the idea of trading 23-year-old goalies. People should cool their heels. A smart GM would tune them out. You can’t run a franchise by letting the fans call the tunes.
by JohninOssining on Apr 2, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What, you didn’t think that Denis DeJordy, Dale Hoganson, Noel Price and Doug Robinson was a steal? :)
Price paid dividends, in that he was Larry Robinson’s Nova Scotia tutor for the next two seasons.
But you’re right, that one was a bust. Heck, nine seasons later the Red Wings got Gilles Gilbert even up for him.
It's gonna happen
One way or another a trade is going to happen.
If they keep Price and Halak, Price will want to play more, if he does Halak will not be playing as much and thus go back to looking for another team that will let him play. If Price isn’t played he’s just taking up a spot that can be filled with money or another player and he may also look into other teams. Right now the problem is they’re taking the numbers game by game. When you have two goalies that makes sense, play the one that has the better numbers, but when it comes to the entire year it doesn’t. Can the Canadiens really stand behind either goalie for the entire season? Who really knows, neither of them have been able to really play through their bad games. If they do bad, they’re gone the next game, if they do good they stay until they do bad. It’s really just trying to figure out who can do better long run. I think they should keep both goalies, but at this point it doesn’t make sense to push Halak to second spot when he’s been showing he can do the same or better than the “superstar”. It also seems like bad luck that Price has been losing games when the offence won’t help him out.
The one difference nowadays is I think Price is trying too hard to show that he’s the better goalie by doing moves that will make the highlight reels and forgets that he’s in the net to stop goals. I’ll leave with one last thought, Could it also because of the media and the fans that they would rather keep a Canadian goalie rather than a Slovakian one?
You lost me at the highlight reel and Slovakian goalie angle…
I also fear that a trade will happen simply because continuing on only deteriroates the situation. I can’t see how it can get better from here with the contract due Halak in an arbitration eligible year.
Do the Habs pay him them only play him half a season?
Can the Habs keep Price on in a designation second goalie role, especially considering he’ll likely regress.
I just can’t see the organization being foolish enough to trade Price. I know Halak is getting a lot of love right now, but as soon as Price is gone and another goalie is backing him up, Halak will lose the fans with a single bad game. Goalie controversy reignited, especially if the backup happens to have a French Canadian name, like say Desjardins.
I also think it’s extremely alarming to look at some stats posted by HIO commenter ‘ebk’ this morning:
Overall Record
W L T
Halak 24 12 3 2.43 0.923
Price 13 20 5 2.77 0.912
vs East Playoff Teams
Halak 5 8 2 3.06 0.901
Price 7 7 2 2.35 0.926
vs sub .500 teams
Halak 11 1 1 1.96 0.942
Price 3 6 0 2.83 0.906
Even in this nightmare of a season (when considering win/loss record), Price still has better numbers and a better record against playoff teams. That’s astounding, and very telling in how good this kid actually is. I also find it very worrying going into the playoffs with Halak as #1.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
Not surprising, the entire team plays better against quality opposition. Sometimes I think the club is overconfident against lesser teams.
But if the entire team is better against quality opposition, shouldn’t Halak’s numbers be similar? From what I see, Price has league leading numbers against playoff teams, with a modest record, while Halak has average numbers for a backup goalie and a losing record.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Not neccessarily, because I find that he’s not as good as Price against quality opposition. He’s gotten better against them though, but as Boyle has painstakenly detailed here, it wasn’t always the case.
Whatever the assessment, I think we’ll see Jaro start a couple on the road in the playoffs (if, if, if) and then see a return to Carey at home.
Ooooh, now there’s a controversial idea! I think Halak deserves to start off in the playoffs, but considering his record I would have him on a short leash personally. Unless of course he goes undefeated over the rest of the season.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Contrary to past seasons, whoever starts in the playoffs, the team cannot wait until the third loss to switch ‘tenders. I think it gets done, middle of the second game, if it’s being lost. But knowing martin, it’ll occur to him that he should have switched sometime in August.
Agree with you completely about Martin. Gotta love his usual approach where he waits until a game is completely out of hand before he pulls a goalie.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Not exactly defending Martin, but the last game he pulled the starter, the Habs won.
by blockersave93 on Apr 2, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
As soon as the season is over I will get into all types of comparisons that show that their numbers are much closer than they look.
Quality of opposition, quality of shots, etc etc.
In the latest updates on Goalies World they have almost the exact breakdown of quality starts, average starts and poor starts. There are all types of benefits to playing with a big lead, especially inflated shot totals.
If Price played 10 games against the Panthers/Leafs/Islanders instead of 10 against the Capitals/Sharks/Penguins/Hawks/Avs/Wings there would be a significant difference in their stats.
The Panthers/Leafs/Islanders have a league expected SV% of .916. So an average game for Halak against that competition should result in a .916 SV%.
The Capitals/Sharks/Penguins/Hawks/Avs/Wings have a league expected SV% of .898.
So an average game for Price against that competition should result in a .898 SV%.
So Price could perform way above average and only post the same numbers as Halak playing average. If Halak plays way above average then he will post a much better save percentage even though he hasn’t outplayed him.
I pray to god that the Habs break things down statistically as well as viewing their techniue and Pierre Gauthier is not just scanning the stats page and making decisions.
I really can’t see the organization trading Price based on one good half season by Halak, but as a kid I never would have predicted Roy would be traded either.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I was not nervous about this until Gainey quit. I don’t know how competent Gauthier is and that makes me nervous.
Any intelligent GM knows you deal players like stocks. You trade them at high points, not low. If Gauthier has a brain he deals Halak because he is coming off the big year. If he does not want to trade Halak, then you have to keep both.
I would tend to agree with you on this one. And unless Halak makes serious noise in the playoffs, his record against playoff teams throughout his career tells me this season may be more of an aberration.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but that’s what it is, and why they’re inquiring.
But I think that PG’s time to act idiotically and deal him has passed. It’ll now be a more calculated assessment, with $ coming greatly into play.
Agreed 100%.
We can always trade Price to Colorado for Hejduk, Svatos and Budaj! Then Halak can have a Slovakian buddy as his backup.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I was trying to draw comparisons to the Roy trade, I guess my sarcasm failed haha.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I know, bad taste.
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Understood!
http://berkshireonthehabs.blogspot.com/
by Andrew Berkshire on Apr 2, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Got'em ,need'em, got'em.
The goalie trade talk is based on the unfortunate reality that Montreal has 2 bonafide starters and are thin elsewhere…as long as a move makes them a stronger, and a legitimate playoff contender, rather than perennial pretender, I’d give plenty of consideration to a variety of trade possibilities. The key is to not get shafted, the deal has to make some sense…otherwise sit tight with solid goaltending.
by cradleofhockey(n.s.) on Apr 2, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
If they get Carter for Price, then they now have to pay Halak $3M+ because they immediately hand Halak all the power.
So now you have $8M wrapped up in both which means bye bye Pleks. If Halak can’t live up to his performance this season then what do you do?
Now you have essentially acquired Carter at the cost of Plekanec AND Price, instead you can keep Price/Pleks/Halak for probably $9-10M.
Oh, Jaroslav will in excess of three million Chris, count on it. He’s arbitration eligible and his agent has been waiting three years for the day. If he stays, it’ll cost the Habs.
Then Halak has to go if you are going to deal one.
You cannot put the future of your franchise on the back of one great season. Especially one where he got the softball schedule.
It’s a terrible risk, cause if he fumbles, they are stuck. The problem is, they are almost painted into that corner.
Draft Picks
The biggest problem with this whole scenario is that the Flyers don’t have a first or second round pick in 2010. That means both of these are impossible barring the Flyers trading someone to get these picks:
James van Riemsdyk and a second rounder in 2010
For Scott Hartnell and a first rounder in 2010
The Carter and Richards references made me chuckle. No way either of them are going anywhere. Surprised to see neither Coburn nor Giroux mentioned though.
Respectfully, Canadiens would have no business asking for Richards, and while I know that Coburn and Giroux are excellent options, the Habs need middle strength and toughness to move into the Penguins and Captital realm.
And that’s why the Flyers are tooled with those guys I mentioned. Philly just lacks that goaltending stud to put them over.
Pay $6m for goaltending the next two years and keep them both. Deal AK46 (preferably not SK74, try and sign him) and a veteran D (Hamrlik/Spacek) to free up the room and try and keep Plekanec. Give yourself some options going forward.
Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.
Keeping Price, they should consider trading some of the Euros (ie the one’s Robert lists above), and get more of a North American feel to the corps. Not to dismiss their abilities, but with the team playing the way it has been this season, it is more Halak’s than Price’s now.
It’s a nice idea to keep both goaltenders next season, but Gainey’s treatment of Price last spring polarized the fanbase and media to the detriment of the team and Price’s development. Another season of the goaltending controversy bullshit will hurt the team.
One thing is certain, if we trade Price to any team other than the Islanders, he will surely become a dominant player for years to come. Can he achieve that with the Canadiens? Not overly confident of that.
Really, they should just worry about making the playoffs now, and then see what they can do, and take things from there.
Unfortunately I think Price is a goner
One way or another i think that price is a goner and it will be another move the habs will regret.
I’d still like to see the Halek-Price tandem next year and give them another year to see if Halek is for real and whether Price progresses further, but I think the habs will move him. even if they don’t I can’t see Price in Montreal once he becomes a UFA.
I blame Gainey for the way he hung Price out to dry by continously starting him when he was clearly struggling. i think Price struggling ilast eyar and n the playoffs and getting a free pass by getting continous starts really turned the fans against Price. I know Gainey was trying to make him tougher for the long-term, but I think that move backfired in turning the blood-thirsty bell centre crowd againt Price, which in turn is going to make it difficult for the habs to be able to keep price once he is a UFA – even if next year he becomes the stud goaltender he was projected to be. hearing some of Price’s interviews, I just don’t get the feeling he wants to be in montreal long-term.
I also think that if the habs do trade him for a guy like Jeff Carter, the flyers would solve their decades old goalie issues, and the habs would get burnt. I could see Carter walk as a UFA and signing with the leafs and the habs would be watching Carter star in Toronto and Price in Philly.
Gainey’s actions have nothing to do with polarizing the fanbase.
This has been happening in Montreal for 40+ years. What polarizes the fanbase is statistics. Halak has great ones, Price does not. The only problem is that goaltending statistics are the most flawed statistics in sports.
When a city boos a goaltender who won 5 cups in 7 seasons and a goaltender who won 3 vezina’s, 2 conn smythes and 5 All-Star appearances, nobody is immune.
I GUARANTEE that if the Canadiens deal Price, Halak will be booed within the next 2 years.
Price gave the perfect answer after the Canes game and the exact advice I would give my child in the exact situation.
“I can’t control anything but myself. I am working hard and I will continue to work hard”.
That is all I want to hear. No blame, no excuses. If he continues to work hard good things will happen. It is a lot of growing up compared to him complaining about being thrown under the bus last season. I respected the “fuck you” to the fans because it showed he is a competitor, I respected the “you may get what you wish for” because it is something that Roy would have said, but I am glad that he is maturing and putting the onus on his work ethic.
He is going to be a star, I will not be happy if it isn’t in Montreal.
price’s value diminishes with every ice appearance , we need offense , what the fans in montreal want is st louis and lecavalier, lets not settle for anything less , this team needs offense and it needs a french canadian connection to its fans , make it happen montreal
This is the type of response that leads to Price being booed.
So your solution is to acquire a $10M player who has had 4 straight declining seasons?
or a 35 year old player who is entering the decline level of his prime?
If Gauthier does something like this, settle in for another dark era.
Price performed well BEHIND Huet ….After Huet’s trade, look at how Price has performed when loaded with the # 1 job…. and his playoff efforts the past two years are AWEFULL. He buckles very quickly under pressure, to what I’ve observed. They should have yanked him last year after the first two games against Boston – but – Gainey – like a alot of the people on the channel – still think the guy could carry the team – wouldnt pull him.
This year, same deal. Halak, because he is WINNING, is taking pressure off Price when it’s his turn in net. Halak is the #1 goalie, and Price is #2. You dont trade your number one goalie, unless you’re the Toronto Maple Leafs….(no drafts picks)
In any case, I always measure a goalie by his shut outs. It’s very hard to get them unless your game is very solid.
Price has 1 in his last 100 games played..
Halak has 4 of them in less than 40 games played this year…
Same defense, same forwards in front of them both….
I know people dont like statistics, but..
Price has not won three games in row (get ready for this Price lovers) since December 2008…
Halak has done it fours time this year, won six once, and four twice…after Price couldn’t stop volleyballs consistently after Dec 2008, Halak won four games in a row twice in early 2009 to save thier season and get the team into the playoffs. Dont believe that? Look at the victories and who they were against.
Halaks been the #1 for over a year now, except he didnt get to start in the the playoffs late last year, oops, by which, Price’s last 7 (count them, seven) playoff appearances have been all losses.
Trade him while he’s worth something. Once you start playing him, (and he loses more as more he plays) his value drops. If he turns out, it won’t be in Montreal.
Maybe he’ll become the Tretiak of the Swiss League or something like that….
Price is not going to get any better than he is right now – you get the feeling he will, but that’s the big tease….Montreal needs size up the middle, they already have their goalie of the future….Jaro is his namoe…
You wasted alot of useless letters typing this.
When the Canadiens traded Huet, they were in fifth place. With Price, they finished first.
Furthermore, hockey is a team game, and strength of opposition counts greatly in every type of assessment.
I gather that you never read a single one of Chris Boyle’s incredibly in depth pieces on that very subject between Halak and Price, or perhaps if you did, they flew right over your head.
Simply looking at a surface stat such as a shutout, hardly tells a complete story. A goalie plays behind a team.
Halak, would he have won a playoff game behind last season’s decimated club?
Jaroslav has tons of merit. All kinds. But folks who try to angle it at the detriment of Price always show their lack of hockey understanding, which you just have in spades.
Statistics can certainly be unbiased and helpful, but they can’t explain everything. Like why is Price 7-7 against playoff teams but 3-6 against sub-.500 teams? It’s true, but it doesn’t make sense.
You can make a statistical case for keeping either goalie. Whichever one you trade could end up becoming a superstar on another team. If we keep Price maybe he keeps winning only 1/3 of games played against weak opponents. If we keep Halak, maybe he keeps winning only 5/13 games against stronger opponents.
In a situation like that, I would be tempted to trade the one who gets you more in return. You can’t know how well they will play down the road — neither one has played consistently well over a full season. In spite of this, both of these goalies are worth something because of their potential.
If we keep them both we have the opportunity cost of having cap money tied up in a second tier-1 goalie instead of another player. There’s also no guarantee that one of them will rise to the top — they may both continue having inconsistent success, which would lead us to be in the same position we are now only their trade values have diminished by proving themselves to be consistently inconsistent.
In the end, I would trade either of them for a player who has already proven himself capable of performing consistently well in the NHL.
Statistics can certainly be unbiased and helpful, but they can’t explain everything.
That depends on which stats one is willing to take a closer look at, keeping in mind that it is a team game, and that strength of opposition greatly factors in.
You can make a statistical case for keeping either goalie.
Very true. It can be like a poll with a political agenda.
Whichever one you trade could end up becoming a superstar on another team. If we keep Price maybe he keeps winning only 1/3 of games played against weak opponents. If we keep Halak, maybe he keeps winning only 5/13 games against stronger opponents.
That is tempting to subscribe to, but this season’s strong clubs could be next years doormates. The constant in the variable might just be who the Habs retain in the equation.
In a situation like that, I would be tempted to trade the one who gets you more in return.
That is my temptation as well (and the notion behind this entire post), but if other clubs are so dead set on one goalie over the other, what does that tell in assessemnt terms?
You can’t know how well they will play down the road — neither one has played consistently well over a full season. In spite of this, both of these goalies are worth something because of their potential.
And that, my friend, is the roll of the dice!
If we keep them both we have the opportunity cost of having cap money tied up in a second tier-1 goalie instead of another player. There’s also no guarantee that one of them will rise to the top — they may both continue having inconsistent success, which would lead us to be in the same position we are now only their trade values have diminished by proving themselves to be consistently inconsistent.
That risk, explains why this summertime opens a window of opportunity that will not be as open come the summer of 2011.
In the end, I would trade either of them for a player who has already proven himself capable of performing consistently well in the NHL.
Very logical, looking for a proven asset. In this thread and post, Jeff Carter is that player, without doubt. A high draft pick is also an option, but I have been informing that Philly has tossed its 2010 carrots already.
Joel, thanks for the thought provoking add to this thread. I like your balance of viewpoints, unbiased. Come back anytime, and often!
Price has struggled with sub .500 teams, but sub .500 teams.
1. Do not make the playoffs
2. It is unlikely that trend continues
Trying to assess those numbers is pure speculation. My guess would be his youth.
His biggest problem this season has been concentration lapses. There is no doubt that Halak has outplayed him, but to me I am looking 2-3 steps ahead.
Is it likely that Price continues to play strong against elite teams and struggle with poor ones? Isn’t that a head scratcher? It doesn’t make sense, when factoring in his age, it does.
Trading either now is predicated on guesswork, one more season makes things much clearer. Split the workload in 2011 with each goaltender getting a mix of elite teams and layups. Then make your decision.
I’ll just keep my statistics, the seem to agree with me….at least for one more evening…
I understand its a team game. I’m not Halak’s personal agent trying to feed contract talks. The kid is the real deal, and moving on from that, you can worry about getting something down the road for the team, that it needs to solidifiy itself.
The whole problem in this whole scenario is the tendency to look at Price vs Halak in the context of what has happened THIS season.
This is exactly the point of my looking into everything. If you go into the playoffs tomorrow, you start Halak. The Canadiens started Hayward over Roy, so Price can learn his lessons too. If Halak struggles like he has the majority of his career with strong teams, you go back to Price.
This is about assessing the future and who will be the better goaltender for the next 5-10 years. With that being the case, then you have to compare Price to where Halak was TWO SEASONS AGO. Goaltenders trend upward from 23-27 and Halak is in the middle of this trend. It is like looking at a 14 year old and a 12 year old and coming to the conclusion that it is obvious that the 14 year old will be much taller because he already is even though the 12 year old hasn’t hit puberty.
This is why it is very dangerous to trade Price right now. I think it is almost unanimous that Price has another gear, the question is does Halak have another gear?
I have made my assessment on more than just numbers, Price is technically superior to Halak in almost every way. He is 4 inches taller and close to 40 lbs heavier, something that is going to be a major factor when the NHL cracks down on equipment in relation to a players size. That means Halak will fill significantly less net in 2011. From the height of his pads to the size of his pants and chest protector.
Is it wise to divest yourself from a superstar prospect on the back of one great half season from Halak and zero understanding how the new equipment will affect him?
The answer is no, it is not wise with Price on the base of the hill on his ascent to his prime and the new equipment unlikely to have a major impact on him.
Add the in depth stats to the study and you are looking at potentially a franchise destroying mistake.
Keep both and make Halak prove it again. Make Price work his ass off and take the job back. THAT is the proper answer.
Chris, this is some good insight, especially into the equipment scenarios.
Halak is a national team goaltender, dont forget. He will be thrust into pressure tournaments beyond club dates that will serve him well into the future. His play sparkled in Vancouver. Surely Habs management have to be keen observers of this too…there aren’t any national team goalies to be had, none that are 24 yrs old, to be sure…? I think the NHL playoffs will do nothing to fade this guy, as he probably felt more pressure playing on the national side to this point, and he excelled under the tournament play.
There is a misconception
That Halak sparkled in Vancouver.
Silver medal game vs Finland – .875 SV%
Semi-Final game vs Canada – .893 SV%
Quarter-Final game vs Sweden – .897 SV%
Playoff Qualifier vs Norway – .842 SV%
His overall SV% for the tournament was .910 and good for 8th among Olympic goaltenders.
Does this prove that he will excel in the playoffs? He had ZERO pressure for Slovakia, your perception proves just this. He struggled when the games became important and the teams got better, yet most perceptions remain that he was FANTASTIC in the Olympics. Luongo had a .927 SV% and would have received major heat had Canada lost.
One had pressure, the other had none.
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