Goaltender Trade Value
With Carey Price's strong start, the Jaroslav Halak backlash has moved away from him and begun to shift to Lars Eller. On TSN, the "expert" panel debated if the Canadiens had received "enough" in Lars Eller. Bob Mackenzie (who I respect a lot) mentioned how they should have acquired David Perron, T.J. Oshie or Patrik Berglund as they are guaranteed top 6 forwards, whereas Eller "could develop into" a top 6 forward.
All of the aforementioned players were St. Louis Blues first rounders. The highest drafted one.... Lars Eller. I don't understand what has occurred in the past three seasons to push Eller so drastically behind the other three. All three players have yet to fully develop, so it is puzzling to see these type of declarations made so early after the trade. Judging an NHL forward at 21 would lead you to believe that player like Tomas Plekanec, Henrik Sedin or Pavel Datsyuk would never see themselves past the third line.
The Canadiens were lucky that Glen "I'm resting on my laurels" Sather viewed the 22 year old Jozef Balej as a better player and opted for him over the 22 year old Plekanec in the Alex Kovalev deal. The jury is still out on who will be the best among those four forwards in 3-4 seasons, it is also still out on who will be better between Price and Halak, so I am certainly not ready to judge or get worked up about this deal after 1 month of the season.
Which leads to the question of "What were the media/fans expectations on the return for Jaroslav Halak"? If the expectation was for a top line forward, then you were destined to be disappointed.
Below is a list of every goaltender that has been traded since 2003. The returns are less than flattering.
| Date | To | Goaltender | From | Player |
| 2003 - 2005 |
||||
| October 3, 2003 | ATL | Jani Hurme | CAR | 4th round pick in 2004 |
| October 5, 2003 | FLA | Steve Shields | BOS | future considerations |
| November 16, 2003 | CGY | Miikka Kiprusoff | SJS | 2nd round pick in 2005 |
| March 3, 2004 | EDM | Petr Nedved Jussi Markkanen |
NYR | Dwight Helminen Stephen Valiquette 2nd round pick in 2004 |
| March 3, 2004 | PHX | Brent Johnson | STL | Mike Sillinger |
| March 9, 2004 | COL | Tommy Salo 6th round pick in 2005 |
EDM | Tom Gilbert |
| June 18, 2004 | CAR | Martin Gerber | ANA | Tomas Malec 3rd round pick in 2004 |
| June 26, 2004 | LAK | Mathieu Garon 3rd round pick in 2004 |
MTL | |
| June 27, 2004 | STL | Patrick Lalime | OTT | conditional 5th round pick in 2005 |
| August 9, 2005 | CGY | Philippe Sauve | COL | conditional 5th round pick in 2007 |
| August 10, 2005 | PIT | Jocelyn Thibault | CHI | 4th round pick in 2006 |
| October 4, 2005 | BUF | Michael Leighton | CHI | Milan Bartovic |
| 2005-06 | ||||
| February 1, 2006 | CGY | Brian Boucher Mike Leclerc |
PHX | Philippe Sauve Steven Reinprecht |
| March 1, 2006 | ANA | Jani Hurme | ATL | Joel Stepp |
| March 8, 2006 | EDM | Dwayne Roloson | MIN | 1st round pick in 2006 conditional 3rd round pick |
| March 8, 2006 | COL | Jose Theodore | MTL | David Aebischer |
| March 9, 2006 | VAN | Mika Noronen | BUF | 2nd round pick in 2006 |
| June 23, 2006 | VAN | Roberto Luongo Lukas Krajicek 6th round pick in 2006 |
FLA | Todd Bertuzzi Bryan Allen Alex Auld |
| June 24, 2006 | FLA | Craig Anderson | CHI | 6th round pick in 2008 |
| June 24, 2006 | BOS | Tuukka Rask | TOR | Andrew Raycroft |
| June 30, 2006 | TB | Marc Denis | CBJ | Fredrik Norrena Fredrik Modin |
| July 5, 2006 | LAK | Dan Cloutier | VAN | 2nd round pick in 2007 conditional pick in 2009 |
| November 28, 2006 | PHX | Mikael Tellqvist | TOR | Tyson Nash 4th round pick in 2007 |
| February 27, 2007 | PHI | Martin Biron | BUF | 2nd round pick in 2007 |
| February 27, 2007 | BUF | Ty Conklin | CBJ | 5th round pick in 2007 |
| 2007-2008 | ||||
| June 22, 2007 | TOR | Vesa Toskala Mark Bell |
SJS | 1st round pick in 2007 2nd round pick in 2007 4th round pick in 2009 |
| June 22, 2007 | FLA | Tomas Vokoun | NSH | 1st round pick in 2008 2nd round pick in 2007 conditional 2nd in 2007 or 2008 |
| June 23, 2007 | CAR | Michael Leighton | MTL | 7th round pick in 2007 |
| June 30, 2007 | BOS | Manny Fernandez | MIN | Petr Kalus |
| July 23, 2007 | STL | Hannu Toivonen | BOS | Carl Soderberg |
| November 17, 2007 | PHX | Ilya Bryzgalov | ANA | claimed off waivers |
| December 6, 2007 | BOS | Alex Auld | PHX | Nate DiCasmirro 5th round pick in 2009 |
| February 26, 2008 | TB | Mike Smith Jussi Jokinen Jeff Halpern 4th round pick in 2009 |
DAL | Brad Richards Johan Holmqvist |
| February 26, 2008 | WSH | Cristobal Huet | MTL | 2nd round pick in 2009 (ANA) |
| February 26, 2008 | PHX | Al Montoya Marcel Hossa |
NYR | Fredrik Sjostrom Josh Gratton David LeNeveu conditional 5th round pick in 2009 |
| February 26, 2008 | ANA | Jean-Sebastien Aubin | LAK | 7th round pick in 2008 |
| 2008-09 | ||||
| June 20, 2008 | STL | Chris Mason | NSH | 4th round pick in 2008 |
| December 30, 2008 | VAN | Jason LaBarbera | LAK | 7th round pick in 2009 |
| January 17, 2009 | PIT | Mathieu Garon | EDM | Dany Sabourin Ryan Stone 4th round pick in 2011 |
| March 4, 2009 | OTT | Pascal Leclaire 2nd round pick in 2009 |
CBJ | Antoine Vermette |
| March 4, 2009 | BUF | Mikael Tellqvist | PHX | 4th round pick in 2010 |
| 2009-2010 | ||||
| July 8, 2009 | DAL | Alex Auld | OTT | 6th round pick in 2010 (SJS) |
| August 10, 2009 | ANA | Justin Pogge | TOR | conditional pick in 2011 |
| January 31, 2010 | TOR | Jean-Sebastien Giguere | ANA | Vesa Toskala Jason Blake |
| February 9, 2010 | DAL | Kari Lehtonen | ATL | Ivan Vishnevskiy 4th round pick in 2010 |
| March 1, 2010 | CHI | Hanny Toivonen Danny Richmond |
STL | Joe Fallon |
| March 3, 2010 | CAR | Justin Pogge 4th round pick in 2010 or 2011 (BOS) |
ANA | Aaron Ward |
| March 3, 2010 | CGY | Vesa Toskala |
ANA | Curtis McElhinney |
| March 3, 2010 | ANA | Joey MacDonald |
TOR | 7th round pick in 2011 |
| June 29, 2010 | MTL | Dan Ellis Dustin Boyd |
NSH | Sergei Kostitsyn |
| August 16, 2010 | MTL | Kari Ramo |
TB | Cedrick Desjardins |
Teams don't like to give up a lot to acquire goaltenders. The majority of this list is made up of journeymen, goaltenders past their prime or goaltenders who have yet to make their NHL impact, but it does contain examples of goaltenders with strong resumes who even when packaged return very little value.
Trades listed below are in chronological order.
Now I am not suggesting that Patrick Lalime was an elite goaltender on the level of Halak, but through the age of 30 he had a .570 winning percentage, averaged a shutout once every 10 starts and had a respectable .909 SV%. In the playoffs he won 3 playoff series and had taken the Senators to Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals while posting a .924 SV%. The return for him after his 2004 playoff meltdown? A 5th round pick with conditions attached to it.
Obviously it isn't a comparable to Halak, and with the signing of Hasek the Senators were not in the best position to demand alot, but the return for a goaltender in his prime was essentially zero.
Although Roloson's career numbers don't do this deal justice, the Oilers acquired him based on the resurgent numbers he posted while with the Wild. While with Minnesota he posted a .919 SV% and posted 15 of his 17 career shutouts in his three and a half seasons behind the Jacques Lemaire wall. The Oilers were acquiring a UFA goaltender who had been in the top 10 in SV% during the 2003 and 2004 NHL seasons. The return for the 35 year old veteran? A first round pick and a third round pick.
We are familiar with this story. A 29 year old goaltender with a Vezina and MVP trophy on his mantle, a selection on Team Canada for the 2004 World Cup, three seasons removed from a Jaroslav Halak type playoff run and 38 games from leading another large playoff upset over the Bruins. The market for him was destroyed because of 38 games? His propecia addiction? His dad's mafia connections? This was a salary dump and ultimately why the fans were not upset when his playoff tested resume returned the king of the snow angels, David Aebischer.
The biggest fish on this list is Roberto Luongo. Although a playoff resume is noticeably absent on his pre-Canucks resume, that was mainly attributed to playing on terrible teams for his whole career. From 2002 through 2006, Luongo finished in the top 10 in SV% every season. Luongo was entering the final season before earning his UFA status. The return? Bryan Allen and Alex Auld were included as well as Krajicek and a pick, but the return was essentially Bertuzzi for Luongo. At the time, Bertuzzi was toxic due to the Steve Moore incident and his career had begun a freefall that he has never recovered from. If the return was the 2003 edition of Bertuzzi, then we would have a legit example of a large return for a goaltender, but because of all the baggage, Vancouver dumped their headache, a backup and a solid defenseman for the premier goalie in the league.
The 31 year old former All-Star was involved in a draft day trade that saw the Panthers acquire his rights for a first round selection (Colin Wilson) and two second rounders (Nick Spaling, the other was used to acquire Colin Wilson). The Predators gave up their established number one goaltender with 384 games of experience for a young forward prospect and a secondary prospect. This return is reasonable and was likely influenced by Vokoun being signed to an extension midway through the 2007 season, assuring the Panthers of a number one goalie for 4 seasons.
The current Vezina trophy finalist wasn't even traded, he was put on waivers because Brian Burke couldn't get enough interest in him to deal him. We are talking about a 27 year old goaltender with solid numbers and a strong playoff resume that included leading the Ducks to the Conference Finals in 2006 with a .944 SV%. Nobody in the league needed a goalie with this resume and an entry level contract? I guess John Ferguson Jr. would rather trade his premier prospect for Andrew Raycroft.
On the surface, a 2nd rounder seems like very little value for the 2006 SV% leader and the 2007 All-Star, but Huet was about to become a UFA and with Price and Halak in the system the Canadiens dealt him at the deadline for a 2nd round pick. It pales in comparison to the returns that UFA forward rentals demand, but is consistent in what teams will trade for goaltenders.
Former All-Star, Stanley Cup champion and Conn Smythe award winner with over 50 games of playoff experience and only 32 years old, Giguere was acquired by the Maple Leafs for the artist formerly known as Vesa Toskala and Jason Blake. In what amounted to a double salary dump (Blake and Giguere because of the emergence of Hiller), the Leafs acquired a number one goaltender and an extra year relief on the ridiculous Jason Blake contract.
It is easy as a Canadiens fan to take the stance that Halak is not a proper comparable to these guys because he is still 25 and after his playoff run is set up for a Hall of Fame career, but that is a biased one sided viewpoint. The counter argument for the GM trying to acquire Halak and lower his return would be that he has never played more than 43 games in a season and therefore should not net the return that a veteran All-Star would require. There is risk on both sides of this transaction, for those who say there are not, I offer up the names Jose Theodore and Steve Penney.
The best return on ALL of these deals were reverse engineered by John Ferguson Jr.. In order to acquire Toskala and Raycroft, Ferguson gave up Rask a first, second and fourth round pick. Can we look to one of the worst GMs in hockey to assess proper trade value? Would you rather have received Bertuzzi on an expiring contract in decline? Jason Blake? Aebischer? Or is the Vokoun return fair value?
Looking at these returns, the Canadiens haul for Halak was not out of line for what the league's GMs have set for a goaltender. If you look at all these deals in hindsight, how bad would Eller have to be in order for the Canadiens to not rank in the top 10 for goaltender return from the Halak trade? (I didn't include Brad Richards because Richards was not acquired for Mike Smith, Smith was used in a package to acquire Richards)
In January the Canadiens fanbase was prepared to receive a 2nd rounder for Halak, four months later a 1st and 3rd rounder was an outright fleecing by the Blues. This brings me back to Eller. The only way he will avoid the wrath of Canadiens fans is if the Canadiens continue to win and he develops into a scoring center. Unfortunately the fanbase is already proving impatient demanding after 10 games of his rookie season for him to be promoted to the Gomez line.The same fans that continually gripe that Carey Price, Guillaume Latendresse and Max Pacioretty were rushed now want to rush Eller into a role he is not ready for.
The Canadiens have had an organizational deficiency at center for the last decade, especially ones with size. Depth up the middle has always been integral to success in the NHL. The Canadiens finally leveraged an asset to acquire one and with Plekanec and Gomez are set down the middle for the next 3-5 seasons. In my eyes he has proven that he is an NHL player. Have patience, let the kid acclimate himself to the organization, the city and learn Martin's system before thrusting him into a role that will ultimately lead to failure.
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I really like Eller and I think the Habs chose wisely. This is entirely a “saw him good” feeling tough. But I ilke the kid. He knows his way around the defensive zone, he hits with intent and looks like a pretty slick puck handler too. Not a great shooter and still isn’t strong enough to complete what he undertakes when he goes in the corners, but that’s all right.
The scoring chances likes him too. He is essentially a low event player right now, but he takes more that he gives away and that is a very nice sign to me.
I think this was a good trade for both parties. Blues got their frontline goalie, we got a nice, cheap rookie who already can play center for 12 minutes a night. Interesting how Jacques Martin has him playing twice as much as Halpern, but with Halpern taking all the faceoffs and Eller taking none.
Martin is an interesting bench boss.
I like Eller too
Just want the fans to have some perspective (unrealistic, I know).
Trading goaltenders rarely results in a large return and if Eller can emerge as even a 2nd line center, it will be in the top 3-4 of returns for a goaltender over the last 8 years. If he ascends to a number one center, then it becomes the best deal out of all of these.
Players tend to get rated by their offensive potential when looking at trades, but a 60 pt, complete player also wins a lot of hockey games.
Many of the impatient fans, that expect instant success from a No. 1 pick, are the same ones who were complaining about how big a bust Kostitsyn was last year.
11 games into 2010-11, they are not complaining about No. 46 right now.
The kid has all of 18 NHL games to his credit. Way to early to be concerned just yet.
Kevin van Steendelaar
http://www.twitter.com/kvansteendelaar
but don't forget...
http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP
by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 1, 2010 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The other aspect that TSN didn't take into account...
We got an entry level player to play on our roster. Perron is now making $2.15m in cap hit for the next two years… we didn’t have that room. Oshie and Berglund are both in the final year of their ELC, Eller is in year 2 of 3. That definitely played a role, particularly since we needed to sign Tomas Plekanec. Letting Plekanec walk was simply not an option.
Also playing a role: the trade partner. St. Louis probably felt more willing to part with Eller than the other guys since they have tons of cap room to sign their young core if they choose to use it.
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Good point
and one that I missed when making my case.
They do that all the time. They rarely take into account salary obligations and it is one of the reasons 90% of the experts missed the boat on the Habs keeping Price.
Actually, to his credit, McGuire said in one of the recent games that’s why they dealt Halak (to keep Plekanec). Then he still said they should’ve gotten Oshie for him. Must have thought we should’ve dealt someone else as well (Kostitsyn?) to make this amazing sequence of events work out.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
Not only keeping Price
If we’re talking about salary cap, we really need to talk about the fact that we’re saving money on the goalie while also potentially getting a center who’s going to outperform his salary. Without Eller, I’m guessing we would have signed Moore or someone like that. Would have cost more and would have absolutely zero chance of developping into a solid second line center.
by Simon Lamarche on Nov 1, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The goalie market
The price point for a goaltender has certainly dropped since the Blackhawks nearly broke the bank with both Khabibulin and Huet.
After spending almost a quarter of their cap between the pipes, look which goalie eventually got them to the Cup, and where he wound up.
There is a lot of goaltending talent out there right now, and will be for a while with 30 teams in the market, so don’t expect many high dollar signings for some time.
Montreal has a good prospect in Eller, so just give him some time.
Kevin van Steendelaar
http://www.twitter.com/kvansteendelaar
but don't forget...
http://www.twitter.com/HabsEOTP
by Kevin van Steendelaar on Nov 1, 2010 3:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think GMs are finally wising up to the fact that statistics don’t equal ability and are no longer paying for statistics. 6 years ago Leighton and Niemi would have got $4M each after their playoff runs, but in a cap system and a larger emphasis on looking for an edge, they are beginning to be exposed as mediocre.
It’s funny… just before the lockout, it was all about the big money goalie winning you the Cup. Of course, it was Roy playing behind a $60m payroll (when payrolls were usually under $40m), Brodeur playing behind a $55m payroll, Hasek behind a $75m+ payroll, Belfour in Dallas behind a $50m+ payroll… some people just didn’t make the connection. Ward won it in ‘06, therefore making him the next Dryden, obviously. I think when Detroit won in ’08, when they had only been able to win with Osgood by outspending everybody by a large margin previously, did GM’s really start to question the goalie pay scale.
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
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If you look at the payrolls after the lockout you’ll see
2006 – Ward – $684,000
2007 – Giguere – $3.9 M
2008 – Osgood – $800,000
2009 – Fleury – $3.5M
2010 – Niemi – $826,875
Roy in 2001 made $7.5M, the last 5 goaltenders combined made just under $10M.
The thing is, most GMs probably won’t develop their teams to the point where they can win with an average goaltender, but they will try to follow the pattern of the Cup champions by minimizing their goaltending investment.
The common thread of most Cup winners is strength down the middle. Always was and always will be.
Goalies, great as they often are, make for a better story because most hockey fans know how to understand the intricacies of the position more plainly.
Ask the common what a center does away from the puck and they’re stumped.
I think the unsung, and unseen hero for the Habs in 2010 was Plekanec, shutting down Crosby in Round Two.
Kudos to Gauthier for finding a way to retain our best center, and with the Halak trade, bring in his potential heir.
Knowing the realities pertaining to the NHL retaining Plekanec and bringing into our folds a green NHL ready first rounder from St-Louis was everything I had hoped Gauthier would be able to acheive last summer.
Gauthier wants a PERENIAL top tier quality team for Montreal…. I want that too so to me last summer’s decisions were all positive steps in the right direction.
Awesome
I signed up specifically so I could say how great this article was to read. I have been trying to say the same thing for a while now, but you did an amazing job of articulating and researching the point.
Thank you.
Oops
Great detail. You missed the big picture. Teams don’t trade young first string goaltenders. They trade second rate players for next to nothing. So, these comparables are WRONG.
Two more points.
First, who knows if Eller will be better than other young forwards in the St. Louis system, but he was playing the minors when the others where playing with the big club. That’s like asking a team to take Max Pac over Pouliot, and arguing they have similar (unknown) long term value.
Second, if Gauthier/Martin had no intention of playing Eller center on the top two lines (as evidenced by him playing limited minutes behind a struggling Gomez), then he should have traded for potential top 6 winger that we desperately need.
Ummm, don’t know if you noticed, but Pouliot is 2 years older than Max Pac and at 22 Max Pac had 86 NHL games under his belt, Pouliot at 22 had 14 games.
How about Plekanec? What was his worth at 21? He didn’t make the Canadiens until he was 24, was his value linked to him being in the NHL?
You might have missed this section.
It is easy as a Canadiens fan to take the stance that Halak is not a proper comparable to these guys because he is still 25 and after his playoff run is set up for a Hall of Fame career, but that is a biased one sided viewpoint. The counter argument for the GM trying to acquire Halak and lower his return would be that he has never played more than 43 games in a season and therefore should not net the return that a veteran All-Star would require. There is risk on both sides of this transaction, for those who say there are not, I offer up the names Jose Theodore and Steve Penney.
Teams don’t trade young first string goaltenders because they are cheap. Halak at 25 is not that young anymore and the Habs cannot control his RFA years anymore, plus he has never played more than 45 games in a season. Pascal Leclaire, Roberto Luongo, Andrew Raycroft were all traded at comparable ages and Bryzgalov was outright dumped on the league at 27.
I didn’t miss the point, I don’t think you read the whole article to be honest.
Well done
I’ve been harping on this ever since the trade was made, but never put the work in to spell it out as eloquently as you’ve done here. This is excellent work, as usual. Keep it up.

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